F650GS/Dakar Lowering FAQ

compiled & edited by Kristian #562
Edited and updated by Winter 25 Novemeber 2005
Please read the Disclaimer before attempting any work in this FAQ.
updated 25 November 2005

• Introduction
• Section 1: Lowering Methods
  • BMW Alternatives
  • Lower Seats
  • Dog-Bone Suspension Links (Koubalinks etc.)
  • Front Fork Modifications
  • Low Profile Tyres
• Section 2: Questions and Answers
  • Do you have any tips for short riders on mounting?
  • Hi, anyone have any suggestion to raise the ride height without changing the rear shock of the F650 GS?
  • I see there are lots of reasons to get the GS but are there any real worries in getting the GSL?
  • BMW sales said for my own good get a LOWERED GS. I'm 5-foot, 5 inches, should I listen to BMW?
  • I was wondering if it is possible to return a factory lowered GS to the standard GS seat and suspension height? If so, would it be difficult/expensive to do?
  • Are there any alternative side or center stands? With the lower links, I have difficulty getting the bike onto the centerstand.
  • Do you have any pictures of the GSL? (from ADVRider)
  • Dragging center stand? (from ADVRider)
• Section 3: Opinions on Lowered Bikes
  • Opinions on Lowered Bikes

For additional information, please refer to the following FAQs:

• For Opinions on Seat Heights for Tall Riders, see the Purchasing FAQ
• For the Footpeg Relocation Kit
• The Classic Lowering FAQ
• Also see the Suspension Tuning FAQ
• For general information and opinions on seats, both stock and aftermarket, see also this Seats FAQ. (Applies to both GS and Classic)

by Thomas Plucinsky (Dec-01)

Two possibilities are available for the GS and Dakar models. First, there are two seats to choose from with a height difference of 40mm. The GS comes with the lower of the two and the Dakar with the higher of the two. As either seat fits on either bike, the other seat can be ordered through your local retailer to accommodate your inseam requirements. The part numbers are: Low Seat PN 52 53 2 345 736 and High Seat PN 52 53 2 345 735.

The second possibility, which lowers the GS by a further 30mm, is the lower chassis option ordered from the factory. For this option, the chassis of the bike was completely re-engineered and does not have trade-offs in ride comfort. As a factory option, it is a $0.00 charge. However, because of the extensive number of parts affected and the associated cost (of which DHP quoted only some), we do not recommend retrofitting a standard GS. Also, due to cost, these parts will not be offered as a kit.

The lower chassis option has only been available from October 2001 production (which means they started arriving in retailers in late November) and not all retailers have ordered a bike with the option. However, the option is available on all GS colors and we have the ability to shift production to produce more depending on demand.

Furthermore, the lower chassis option and the low or high seat may be combined to specifically tailor the bike to the individual (his and her seats perhaps?).

We hope this answers all the outstanding questions on this issue.

I would also like to take this opportunity to wish you all the very best for the Holiday Season and the New Year.

Thomas Plucinsky
BMW Motorcycles

• Seat Options
• So what are the differences between the Stock Seats?
• Seat Opinions

• One Alternative is the the LOWER GS Dualseat which is 40mm lower than the stock GS Seat.
• BMW Parts Numbers for GS/Dakar Dual-Seat
  • (F650GS & Dakar) 52 53 2 345 735 Dual-seat, high, black
  • (F650GS & Dakar) 52 53 2 345 736 Dual-seat, low, black
  • Apparently BMW also now offer an extra low seat for the Dakar, but many believe it is actually a Wunderlich seat anyway. Ref: New info on lower seat:
    I just wanted to pass this info along since there has been much confusion around this subject.
    
    There are three seat options for the GS:
    
    1. High Dakar Seat
    2. Standard seat (comes with the bike)
    3. Low seat (little over 1" lower)
    First of all, my dealer insisted that there was a lower seat option for the GS even after I told him that all my research from this board and from BMW site said otherwise. He was even going to order one for me. I passed on it and instead bought a used one from our classified section. This was new in the box. There were no signs of modification. I just put it on the bike and it is considerably lower than the standard seat. I'm just guessing but I assume it's similar to Wunderlich lower seat in height but much cheaper in price. The person I bought it from paid $165 new from the dealer. Ed Northern VA.
• There is also a single seat as an option and that its height is said to be somewhere in between the others. Refer: DHP Solo Seat and DHP Solo Seat 2..
• Another alternative for the Dakar is that you can buy a lower seat from Wunderlich, www.wunderlich.de, called the Ergo Series. Here is a direct link, and shows Photos of both high, middle and lower seats. Sitzbankserie Ergo.
• Here are the three Seats, high, middle, low, from Wunderlich:
• For Opinions on Stock/Aftermarket Seats and the BMW Single Seat, refer the Aftermarket Seats FAQ (Both Bikes).
• Here is a Picture of BOTH Seats, Side by Side. Thanks to Haakon & Fernando.

• Dakar and GS seats are interchangeable. Dakar is 1" higher. Many in your position have received a trade by the dealer upon purchase. Last year Wunderlich came out with a seat that is 1.25" lower than the GS. Looked like OEM to me and I wondered if Wunderlich makes the OEM seats for BMW. Then this year BMW came out with their own extra low seat that can be purchased. Does not come standard on any bike. Also 1.25" lower than the GS. Much cheaper than the Wunderlich....same price as the other two seats....about $160.....if memory serves. That said...I'm <5'5" with a 29" inseam. Ride the GS with the standard seat. Weight allows me to set the suspension somewhat soft. That coupled with some thick-soled boots works just fine. Shelley798

• If you check the Wunderlich site (www.wunderlich.de) - you can see that they make 3 seats. They all cost the same which is €400 or €200 if you trade your old seat. € and $ i about the same. Use the babelfish translator for more info (unless you speak German) -

  EXTRA LOW - 70mm Lower than standard Dakar
  LOW - 40mm Lower than standard Dakar
  HIGH - 30mm Higher than Dakar.

• My trouble will be (next year or so when I can afford to buy one) that having sat on a Dakar last Thursday, my little legs mean that I cannot touch the ground on both sides with my balls (of my feet, of course ), whereas with the standard GS both feet are flat on the ground - so, it would appear that the standard seat on the GS suspension set-up is closer to ideal for me. Then again, a 4-500 mile bum ache probably wouldn't be a problem as the standard tank would mean stopping way before then anyway. rallybug
• The Dakar seat on the Dakar is tall...BUT the Dakar *seat* on the F650GS is only a tiny bit taller than the standard F650GS. Remember the Dakar has much taller suspension to start with, so that's why you couldn't *flat-foot*. Trevor George
• Been there done that. In August I bought an 02 Dakar. I asked for the low seat! There are two (2) BMW seats available. I was originally going to buy the F650, Non Dakar, until I sat on the Dakar with the low seat. That was it, I was convinced. The high seat was just a little two much. I believe the seat pan is the same for either seat. The regular GS comes with the low seat, unless you ask for the high seat. The high seat usually comes on the Dakar. I took it a step further and purchased the extra low seat from the BMW dealer in Santa Cruz. It is manufactured by Wunderlich. Don't buy it there though. I learned the hard way once I bought the seat I found it much cheaper at Sierra BMW in Las Vegas. As for the Solo seat I have not tried it out. If you do I would be interested in knowing how it compares height wise. Richard
• Check out the extra low seat on the www.bmwscruz.com site. Go to shop online and click GS ($529). Set your suspension on the softest setting. That's all folks!! Art884
• Wunderlich make an even lower seat than the low BMW seat. If you click on http://www.bmwscruz.com/SHOP/BMW/index.html Then click on "F650GS" then wait a while for the page to load, the third item down will be the "Extra Low Seat F650GS and Dakar". That's the lowest possible seat currently available. Trevor 999, Bristol, UK.
• Hi Annie! I'm also a bit on the short side and I got the Wunderlich extra low seat (almost an inch lower than stock low seat). Although the foam is thinner than stock, it actually helped improve comfort cuz the seat is contoured more to my body shape. Its a bit costly however. Over here in the Philippines, many riders are not very tall that's why seat shaving is quite common ( I realized it only after purchasing the expensive Wunderlich seat from overseas). Had I known earlier, I would have just asked an upholsterer to shave my seat. I think its a good decision that you asked someone to custom shave your seat instead of buying the expensive Wunderlich one. Jagged
• A Corbin seat will lift you up, in effect, letting you down. I have 3 which ALL raise my feet. The kit and installation on my classic cost under 500 bucks and can't imagine that the GS price is over triple that. I would call around and get prices from other dealers. Art 884
• Why not get the extra low Wunderlich seat - copy and paste this into your internet address thingy - http://www.bmwscruz.com/SHOP/BMW/index.html '02 F650GS, London, UK. Andrew C (UK)
• Don't waste your money on a Corbin. Even if you ask them to cut it down as much as possible and even if they say they can get it lower than the stock seat, they can't. I found out the hard way. The Wunderlich low seat looks like a nice solution. I've seen it on another bike (it looks quite a bit lower than stock) but haven't sat on one. Another option is to find a local shop that can carve your seat down. This is what I did and the fit is great. I used to be on my toes and now I'm firmly on the balls of my feet. And it only cost me $50. One more thing - when you come to a stop, slide your butt to the side slightly off the seat when you put your foot down and your bike will feel much more stable than if tip-toeing on both sides. I feel comfortable on bikes taller than the GS using this trick. '01 F650 GS, '89 Hawk GT Rebecca
• Thanks to Grits suggestion, I got the Wunderlich extra low seat at a good price (around $400) last March just before all the online dealers raised the price. The Wunderlich should be bring u down 1" and because of it, I can flat foot on one side now. By the way, I also got the Touratech bar riser and combined w/ the lower seat, it makes riding much more comfortable. jagged.

• In my capacity as the monthly motorcycle magazines' proof-reader, I came across this item in the March issue of Cycle World on page 26, in their New Ideas section. Kouba Link, 8660 Brookside Ln., Boise, ID 83703 (208)939-3753, ( www.koubalink.com ) makes gold-anodized, machined-aluminum dog-bone suspension links for the BMW F650 (it doesn't say which one) that will effectively reduce seat height. Sounds like a reasonable, possibly inexpensive (no price was given) and easy to install, option to lowering the F650. However, don't forget that the center and side stands may need to be modified, depending upon the extent of the lowering.  Richard #230
• Looks like it costs $110 if you reuse bearings and $140 for new. Naturally you still need to alter or replace Centrestand/Sidestand. Joeg #1102
• Lowering Links for 01 Dakar. Installed the new 2 lowering links on my 01 Dakar from Kouba link ( www.koubalink.com ). Easy to install took less than 30 minutes and the fit and finish is very good. At 5' 6 with an inseam of 31 I needed a little help to touch the ground with some authority, I had the lower seat and that helped. First impressions are good for solo riding, I have to do more riding with the wife to get a feel for two up riding. Riding solo, cornering is good and side wind and windshield buffeting was reduced greatly. I've only had them on for a couple days, taking different ways home from work to get a feel for twisty's and long shots. Top speed is the same but with more stability and again less head buffeting. I also raised the front forks 0.850 or as far as I could with out hitting the handle bars. No center stand to worry about, but the side stand is positioned just right now, Always was to short for stock suspension. Norm Kouba treated me right letting me know when the parts were being shipped. I'm 5'6" on a good day and put the Kouba 2" lowering links on my 01 GS Dakar about two months ago. More stable in cross winds, handles just as good as stock if not better, touch the ground with more authority. Yes I still hit the dirt roads and fire trails, plenty of ground clearance (with the preload and shocks turned up I like a stiff ride) to get you through creeks and over logs, yet carves a good corner and will cruise at 75 - 80 for hours with the big dogs. Yea the seat sucks but i took the staples out of the seat, pulled the foam off, (the cover is firmly attached to the foam) and used some alligator skin to shred some foam off to custom form it to my butt. Takes a couple hours to shave down a little, try it out, shave some more. Re-staple with a GOOD stapler. It is a good bike for the most part, except for the poor light spread of the head lights and cheap plastic shroud around it. But hey I ride fast and like a bright light to see good at night, so it's my thing. Ride with the big dogs and get the Dakar. Tom #1089
• Photos Of Lowering Process F650GSPD. Just in case you folks were not familiar with Koubalinks lowering goodies here's there site. Good high quality products to lower your F650 either one or two inches. www.koubalink.com. With my wife being 5'7 she was on her toes on the F650GSPD but with the Koubalink we put here feet flat on the ground. We also let the fork tubes up in the clamps one inch. Easy deal. The first photo is of the parts that are replaced. The second photo is of the Koubalinks in place. Replace the rear links and then slide the forks up in the triple clamp? Sounds too easy? That is all and my wife has her feet flat on the ground. Mike Galmukoff, Mad Russian on Advrider.com

• I don't know about the side stand on the straight GS but on the GSPD it is now at a decent angle, because in original height the side stand had the bike WAY over. Renee' has a 32" inseam.

  Have your wife sit on the bike with her whatever riding boots on and have her sit down on the bike. Have a tape measure ready and push down on the back of the bike until her feet are where she wants them. Measure that amount of drop as you push down on the bike. this will tell you if you need 1" or 2" Koubalinks. Don't forget to drop the fork tubes down in the triple clamps first. REALLY READ the directives at Koubalink's site about fork tube adjustment. Mike "The Mad Russian" Galmukoff on Advrider

• I guess the side stand would have to be modified, I saw no reference to it at their website. I really liked the step by step instructions that they had, I believe even I could manage this job. Thanks for the info. DJR, Advrider.com
• I tried the 2" Koubalinks for a time, but with the Touratech panniers were heavily loaded the rear wheel would bottom on the under side of the fender over larger bumps. Also, this was with the Touratech suspension kit, so the rear shock was a WP unit, and the rear wheel was 18 inches instead of the stock 17. Thus, my experience probably wouldn't be the same as that of a stock GS with 1" links, but I really don't know. Lowering the rear will also likely make the bike steer more slowly, but I don't know if this would be enough to make a significant difference. The links are very well made, and Norm Kouba will readily take them back and refund the money if the customer doesn't like them (even if they've been used). So you have very little to lose by giving them a try except the postage and your time spend installing them (which is a very quick and easy job). Hope this is of some help. Mike #926
• I have the 1" links on my 2002 F650 GSA. They are excellent. You can tell the workmanship is top-notch, and it does what it says it will do. Norman Kouba is great. I spoke to him when I ordered, and he recommends only the 1" for the GS. You can use the 2" on the Dakar, because it has the extra suspension. This is probably why on the previous post he is having trouble with bottoming the suspension. I highly recommend them. Forgot to mention, to keep the bike from steering more slowly, we pushed the forks up thru the triple clamps to keep the geometry of the bike the same. So mine does not steer any more slowly than without the links. I have the Kouba links which lowers the bike 1 inch. Norman Kouba suggests NOT lowering it more than an inch so the suspension won't bottom out, on the regular GS. On the Dakar, you can lower it 2 inches. I also have the Wunderlich seat which I think is great. That gives you another inch. Push the forks up thru the triple clamps an inch and you are set. The only thing is, the Wunderlich seat has gone up in price since I ordered mine. Cheap it is not. $529 to $549 last time I checked. But, to me the seat is one of the most important modifications. I've really enjoyed mine. If your seat isn't comfortable, you won't enjoy riding the bike. I think the only difference is the BMW kit comes with a shortened sidestand and centerstand. I have left mine stock with no problem. GRITS
• I put the Kouba 1" lowering links on my wife's 2001 F650GS. She is 5'4" with a 29 1/2" inseam. When the bike was purchased, we had the dealer lower the triple clamps about 1". That helped, but was not enough for her. Since adding the Kouba links earlier this summer, she is much more comfortable on the bike. I have not noticed any problems with handling. The bike is harder to put on the center stand. I'm going to check into mounting the shorter centre and possibly side stand from the factory F650GSL (lowered) model to see if it helps. RoboBoxer
• F650GS shorties--Koubalinks. I posted a thing several months back about the new links for the FI model Dakar. I put on the 2" links and lowered (raised) the front fork as high as the handle bars would allow, about 7/8 of an inch, so far they work good have only hit bottom once on a rocky outcropping back a little used trail. I have also done some improvements to the 01 Dakar seat, (check FAQ) I'm only 5'-6' on a good day with a 30" inseam and the 2" links puts me almost flat footed. I do keep my shock on high and the preload 12 clicks down from very hard. Tom1089
• Spend $150 and get yourself a set of Kouba links, they'll drop the bike 1 to 2 inches. If that's not enough add a lower seat (Wunderlich comes to mind) and you're good to go. An easy modification (I hear it takes les than 2 hours to install the Kouba links) and easily undone as well. I'm not sure what kind of BMW aftermarket kit (is it BMW or is it aftermarket??) you are talking about that costs $1500. If you are talking about a BMW factory option, it involves a modified frame (as far as I know, somebody who knows better I'm sure will jump in here) and I would most definitely stay away from it. You're likely better off and much more cost effective to sell your bike and buy one that is factory lowered already. Razz
• The Kouba link worked for us. Very easy to swap out and a quality product. The side stand is still usable but the bike sits pretty upright, if you pay attention it is fine. Also it makes the center stand a little harder to deploy. Handling seems unaffected. Here is a closer view. The Kouba link outfit is located in Boise if I remember right so they should be right in your back yard. On the GS this setup works great. David Roskelley
• Update on Kouba links. I ordered the links and they came in a few days. It took about an hour to put them on, the second time would be 15 minutes. I have the 1 inch drop. The bike is about one inch lower. The side stand works well. The centerstand is now a little harder to put up as it is now about one inch longer than it needs to be but it works. I am going to try it for a while then have it cut shorter if it needs it. The front can still be dropped if I need it. Jimb

• You can also attain some lowering by just dropping the triple clamps down the fork tubes, but again, the center and Sidestand come into play. The steering geometry also changes slightly unless you also lower the rear, but its barely noticeable. Just a bit quicker. Chris#782
• The fork legs can be moved up about an inch before conflicting with handlebar. I have done this on two Dakars. Both can be seen here.

• Theoretically this will give you a bike that turns more easily but maybe also feels nervous. When at the same time adjusting pre-load in the back to a minimum the bike is further lowered and I haven't been able to feel anything negative in the bike's handling (in fact I can't feel any difference other than in height). Another risk is that something may get in the way and be destroyed when bottoming the front. I haven't really made the effort to study this in real detail but when doing a quick check it didn't seem to be a problem. Aftermarket handlebar raisers may be a way to go even further with this but be careful when exceeding 25 mm as a very small change may affect the bike negatively. A higher handlebar may also not be comfortable for you. The bike to the right in the picture above has also had its seat changed to a standard GS seat to lower it an additional 35mm. Pelle, Sweden.
• The next time you change your fork oil, you can place the front of the bike on blocks, remove the fork springs and push the wheel up to its maximum stroke to check for wheel clearance. It will never rise that high with the oil and springs in the forks, so you can be assured that you will not run into clearance problems (not a good thing) with the yokes dropped on the fork tubes. I have raised the fork tubes about 10mm on a couple of my bikes in the past and have appreciated the quicker and more precise handling that resulted. Richard #230

• Not sure if low profile (70 or 80) tires are available in the size/style you require (that'll buy you a fraction of an inch). Can usually go one size narrower on the tires as well. And finally, tire diameter varies between manufacturers...you may be able to scrounge a bit more there. (Just remember if you wear one out on the road, you may have difficulty locating an oddball replacement tire size/brand) If worse comes to worst, go see your local Redwing safety shoe store...they'll build you a custom set of boots with thicker soles. Marty #436-Chicago-97 F650F

• How To Mount: Being 6'4", You may want to check the Short Bikers List for ideas. http://www.ki.org/sbl/
• See the video that I put up about getting on a bike using the side-saddle/moving mount technique? http://www.dhpmoto.com/Reports/Misc/quickmount.htm

A/O: How about dropping the forks in the triple-clamps? That would raise the relative ride height, as would installing a 90% aspect ratio rear tire. Richard #230

Additional Data: I wanted to have more clearance between the ground and the engine guard.

A/O: You can buy just a rear spring and increase the preload in the front by adding to the existing spacer. Harl #380

A1. Since the engine and just about everything else is the same between the GS and GSL, you're kind of asking if it will fit you and if you'll like riding it. Plenty of us like the F650 both Classic and GS. You should take a nice test ride to see if you like it. If your dealer won't let you test, you should consider another dealer, since test rides are part of BMWs operating procedure. The only limitation you're likely to find with the GSL is in clearance, and unless you are doing some rougher off road, you aren't going to notice. If you do plan on doing a lot of off road, maybe 40 to 50 percent of your riding, then this probably isn't the bike for you. stuflinn

A2. I have a GSL and I like it. Given my height (5' 9"), I could have done a non-lowered bike, but I get along on the GSL just great. I've done dirt road riding with no trouble. The biggest draw back for me is the occasional dragging of the center stand during spirited pavement cornering. JC #1418

A1. It's extremely important to be comfortable with the bike you're riding. If you feel like you're going to drop it every time you need to put two feet down, it'll hurt your confidence and you may be more likely to drop it. However, you may find that you get used to it.

However, before you give up on the Dakar, how much does it settle down when you sit on it, full weight on the bike? I'm 5'10" and I'll be flat-footed with bent knees on a Dakar when my weight is on it - the suspension will settle quite a bit. For you, perhaps it will be on the balls of your feet when you have two feet down. Getting on and off might be an issue though. dinskeep #1730

A2. Your height itself is not important (except if you are really tall and may experience problems with protection from the wind). What is more important is the length of your inseam.

A1. Don't mess with any of that stuff... It's german made.... Once put toghether is to stay that way... don't fool with it!!! Any modifications you make will probably have an adverse riding geometry or something of that sort. Just get the taller version. FIUF650

A2. It's a simple swap of the forks & shock (just less travel on the GSL parts). I have a "spare" like-new set of standard travel GS forks and a standard GS shock. We were saving these to switch my wife's '03 back and forth as necessary, but she has decided to stay on pavement and stick with the low set-up. The standard parts raise the bike apx. 1" and provide more ground clearance. A tall (Dakar) seat will lift you another 1" if you want more leg room. levity

A3. That's a tough one. I think the fork legs are different. Something in the shock and/or linkage, too. Side and centerstands are different. The seat is thinner. On a lowered Classic, the forks and shock are the same (the shock had a spring spacer inserted) for lowered and standard. The linkage and stands were different, but relatively easy to find used. Maybe you can find someone who wants to lower a standard height model and trade parts... Harl #380

A. Check with your local dealer. The following part numbers (for the GS) were provided by TomCat #1777:

• sidestand BMW PN 46 53 7 651 190 for before 8/01 and
• sidestand BMW PN 46 53 7 669 901 for after 9/01
• centerstand BMW PN 46 52 7 651 195

Also check BOB's BMW for more information.

ADVRider Extracts
The following are some extracts from ADVRider on the subject of the GSL... Here was the lowered one [image on the left]. Notice how the seat is really scooped out. The frame is almost dragging in the lawn! Gordy on ADVRider Just to add to Gordy's good points, getting rid of the centerstand increases ground clearance by several inches, as this picture [on the right] clearly illustrates.. Arch on ADVRider
Dragging Center Stand?
You can either remove the center stand, or as suggested by Arch you can grind off the ends of the center stand as shown in the circles in this image

• I just got the factory lowered GS. I am 5'0 tall with a 28 inseam. On the lowered bike, I can get the balls of my feet on the ground. On the standard GS, I can only get the very tips of my toes on the ground and had a hard time pushing the bike to an upright position from the sidestand. The peg height is not a problem when you are as short as I am. After 210 miles on my bike so far, I like it a lot and find it very comfortable for shorties. Bonnie in Illinois.
• My wife has a standard GS 01, she's 5-4, on it she gets the balls of her feet down, she sat on a lowered GS and was able to flat foot it . Its considerably lower. jrsue.

  It is possible to make your bike too low. If you decrease the distance between the seat and foot pegs too much, it creates quite a cramped riding position. Your doubled over legs will not appreciate that position for very long. Remember, you spend most of your time riding, not standing at stop lights. Also, there is no reason that you have to be able to flat-foot both feet when stopped. One is enough to balance on. I'm 5'8 and ride the Dakar with stock seat and pegs, and although I cannot flat-foot both feet, I LOVE the riding position. Before investing a lot of money making your bike as low as you get it, make sure you can stand to ride it that way. SScratch.

• It's not a *kit* as such. The whole frame is lower and different from a *standard* GS, so it's not something you can convert to a normal GS after purchase, or convert a normal GS to. The Dakar seat is the *High* seat and the normal GS seat is the *Low* seat so you can make small height changes that way to any of the F650GS range. Trevor #999
• I have a lowered chassis F650GS and find that it's even lower than my previous lowered F650 Classic. I had a problem with the centre stand grounding and returned the bike to my dealers for investigation. They found that the angle of the stand varies from bike to bike and the difference between bikes could be as much as 2 inches. It appears that the 'lug' that prevents the stand from retracting too far has a wide range of tolerance (or someone's done a crap job), so they modified it and all's well now. I have an inside leg of 28 inch and find the bike ideal. I was given a standard F650GS whilst my bike was having it's 600 mile service and didn't feel as confident with it. Reggie, Lancashire England
• I have a lowered F650GS, which is even lower than my previous 1997 F650. I'm 5ft 5in with a 28in inside leg. My Mrs is 5ft 2in. We can both place both feet on the deck and are very happy with the bike. Stuart Martindale
• Yeah! The factory lowered F650GS has been wonderful for me. I'm 5'3' and really like having my feet flat on the ground. If you're near Detroit, you'd be welcome to check it out. Deborah, #1074
• At 5'10, you should be able to sit on the F650GS with both feet firmly on the ground. Were you by any chance sitting on the (taller) Dakar version? There is a several inch height difference between the two bikes. Turning the spring preload up and down will also make a difference. My F650GS is set at 2/3 full preload on the rear spring, has the 2 taller Dakar seat on it and I stand firmly flat footed -- and I'm only 5'8. For city riding, I'd suggest the regular F650GS rather than the Dakar -- it's lower to the ground yet still has ample ground clearance for hopping curbs. For primarily street riding, the regular F650GS's wider front tire provides much better feedback than the Dakar's thinner front tire. ABS is also a nice feature -- when the roads get slimy from rain and oil, you'll really appreciate it. The F650GS series is really nice in tight environments because of it's upright seating position and very narrow width. It can squeeze easily between cars. Good luck Paul An.
• At 5'7 with a 30 inseam I can flat foot my standard (not lowered) GS with my riding boots on. it's my first bike and I haven't any trouble riding it yet. lots of people recommended a beater bike as a first bike, but hey, it's my money :) johnm
• Way too much is made over whether you can flat-foot a bike with both feet when stopped. You don't need to. It is not necessary. You can balance a bike with one foot, maybe just lean it over a bit if necessary. I'm 5'8 and don't find my Dakar to be too tall. SScratch.
• Dakar's a great all-around bike. Inseam is more important than overall height. I can tell you that Andrea Mayer rides bikes as tall and taller than the Dakar as I do. You just need to slip a bit off of the saddle to the left or right depending on what foot you want to put down. I'm 5'6" and have a 30" inseam. I started riding the Dakar and while a bit tall found it easily manageable. The weight of the bike IMO has nothing to do with it. You can balance a bike standing straight up with just one finger (try it). Now my Dakar is even taller and the Rallye bike taller still. Don't let a seat height of a bike discourage you from the bike. It's your mounting and stopping techniques that you need to focus on. FYI - I always mount with the side-saddle hop, easier on the body and no problems with any height bike (plus it looks cool). I learned this from shorter riders such as Andrea Mayer and Gaston Rahier. If they do it all of the time then why not us? The lower seat option of the Dakar brings the height down somewhat close to that of the standard GS. You can also look at the solo seat option which is height wise between the GS and the Dakar. Mojave Desert (Calif.), is fun area to ride but you'll want to put Continental TKC80s on the bike before taking it off-road. Don't believe the marketing hype, the bike needs real tires. If you see the new poster in BMW dealers of the Dakar doing a wheelie in Death Valley that's Jimmy Lewis who you can take training classes with (see my web site). A DR650 or any other bike Honda CR450 for example can be set up to do desert stuff better than a Dakar because of the overall pork (weight) factor. Personally I don't like the Suzuki equipment but the Honda or a KTM is an excellent off-road tool. Davidhpark, #711
• There is a very simple way of getting the GS, or the lowered GS for that matter, on the center stand. Just carry a small piece of wood, high density Styrofoam may do too, 3"x5"x1 to 1.5" thick. Rasp a slant on one side as lead-in. Roll the bike's rear tire on that shim to elevate it slightly and you'll see how easy it jumps on it's center stand. Werner
• I ride a factory-lowered '01 F650GS. It has nothing to do with the seat or the tires, which are in fact identical to those on our non-lowered '01 F650GS. I have ridden over 8000 miles (13 000km) on it, so I have to conclude it exists. If you look at the two bikes side by side the chassis on mine clearly sits closer to the ground. Off road I tend to hit the bash plate more often than my partner does. The suspension geometry is different. It rides differently. It leans less on the side stand. The centre stand is significantly shorter. And so on. I know for a fact that a factory-lowered F650GS exists. If BMW can make one, then surely they are capable of repeating the exercise. By the way, I love it. mspeed #1023 Toronto, Canada.
• I'm sure the lowered GS has a different rear suspension linkage. There are two part No's for one of the struts, one standard and then another applying to "Tieferlegung" and refers to type X499A. Paul W (UK) Dakar.
• We just added a lowered GS to our fleet. The seat and tires are the same as a standard GS. There appears to be a difference in the frame, front forks, center and side stands, and probably some other things that I have not discovered. Mr. P is right, your dealers are mis-informing you. Keith#714 Alaska
• GS lowering. It's about 2 inches but I've noticed a ground clearance problem with mine. I only weigh 12 stone and without panniers fitted I find that the centre stand grounds way to easily. This never happened on my lowered 94' F650. Whilst at the dealers we examined two other bikes and found that the stands were not fully retracting because of incorrectly located lugs! Has anyone else had a problem? Stuart Martindale (UK)
• Don't change your suspension settings just to have the bike sit lower at a stop (i.e. Bryan's recommendation). This is stupid. You aren't using your suspension at this time/properly. Your suspension needs to be set properly to handle the riding that you plan to do/road conditions. Davidhpark, #711
• I'd say that the first thing you do is to at least check the setting on the rear suspension preload to see if it is set in the high range. At your weight you are certainly not going to require that much preload for city street riding, and you will likely lose an inch of ride height if the preload is set lower. Todd #389.
• I've been lurking around this board as a non-registered visitor, but I decided to register today because I got my new wheels! Picked up my F650GSLA on Wednesday night. This is the first time I've been at the computer as opposed to out there riding it! What a great little bike! Compared to my last one, well, there is no comparison. A virtual toast to my new acquisition! I've seen a few posts about people enquiring about whether or not this is a good bike in terms of size for shorter female riders. I'm 5' 1", and I can just about flat foot on both sides of the bike, and it doesn't take much lean (or stretch) to get one foot solidly planted to the heel. If you're a short female rider considering this bike, the low model will probably do it for you. Happy riding everyone! Libra89
• I'm 5'11" and can't flat foot my GS Dakar! Still a lot of fun to ride though! I got to stop dropping it off-road and breaking things though. Lost a turn signal and a Jesse Bag today riding but oh what fun it was! K12RSSteve on Advrider.

• Annie Au wrote "I don't know how far I can wind out the damping screw before it is too far". You can wind it out till it hits the stop ... the knob won't come off.

  "I thought about raising the forks through the triple clamps a bit" As you've already got the "Factory lowered" bike I would only do that as a last resort, as you'll be reducing ground clearance even further. The "lowered" versions already have a reputation for early grounding if ridden with enthusiasm.

  "I don't know how badly that will effect the steering." A little, but it won't be dangerous, just a different feel, slightly quicker steering. I have just been onto a motorcycle seat specialist here and he thinks that an inch or inch and a half on a seat re-sculpture is possible so we are getting there. The even lower seat option is the best to pursue as it won't affect the *rideability* of your GS. Trevor, Bristol, UK

• Thanks for the replies. They have been a great help. We are going for the lowering of the seat. We tried the old phone books under the feet trick and they were 40mm thick and that was perfect, so getting 30mm should be good. Dropping the triple clamps is still a maybe as I don't ride with enthusiasm, not yet anyway. Still getting use to the biker better bike. I have gone from a Kawasaki EL250 mini cruiser to this. I didn't realise how badly it handled till the F650, and I can join my husband on BMW rides now. LOL. Thanks again, I will be a regular here, this is a great site. Seats in getting done now, pick it up tomorrow. That's not bad service, over night job. The seat guys here, Ergoseats by John Moorehouse, a little plug, thinks that he can only safely go down 20mm, rather than the 30 that Wunderlich are advertising. There just doesn't seem to be anymore depth to the base. Well the lower seat is done and on the bike. Top job too. Patterned cover, yellow piping to match the bike colour and top notch padding. With slightly thicker soles on my boots I am now much more comfortable with my touch on the ground. The seat lowering was a great price too. $280AU, which is about $182US. If anyone needs the contact, just post here and I will get it for you. It is in Australia though. Been on a couple of rides and to and from work. This bike handles much better than what I was riding, a Kawasaki EL250. What a step up. Thanks again for all the help, it was very reassuring to hear I am not the only rider with height and reach problems on bikes. Annie, Australia.
• If you decide you still need the seat lower after the seat modification, raising the fork in the triple clamps is worth a try, but unfortunately doing that doesn't lower the seat as much as the fork is raised because of the seat being more over the rear suspension than the front. If you still have a problem after doing both of those things, you may have to lower the rear of the bike, and there are two ways to do that. One is to try longer lower shock links, and the other is to have a suspension shop shorten the shock itself. Here in the States there is a fellow in Idaho (Norman Kouba) who makes 1" and 2" longer links for our F650 GS's. The main drawback with the links is that you may experience the rear wheel bottoming on the underside of the fender over big bumps, especially if two up or with heavy luggage, although this may not be very likely with the 1" links. A drawback with shortening the shock is that suspension travel is reduced. Obviously, both of these methods will reduce ground clearance, still another drawback. You may find that, after riding the bike for awhile, you will adjust to the taller seat height, especially if you've only ridden cruisers in the past. I have very short legs, about 27 1/2 inch inseams, and used to think seats the height of our GS's were very tall. Then I started riding dirt bikes with 36 1/2 to 37 1/2 inch seat heights and my perspective on what's tall totally changed. So if at all possible, I would suggest you try living with the seat height for awhile before going beyond modifying the seat and raising the fork in the triple clamps, especially since it gets expensive after that. Hope this is of some help. Enjoy your new bike! Mike #926, Calif
• I've lowered my wife's '01 GSA by using 17'' super motard wheels, and the low Wunderlich seat. The suspension is at stock heights and she's nearly flat footed at 5'4". She also rides with boots that have a taller inner sole made specifically for shorter motorcyclists. They're made by Daytona, and I think the model is Lady Daytona. They look like any regular riding boot on the outside, but have a raised footbed on the inside. Our GSA has a steeper front fork angle from the front 17'' wheel and I think it handles much better than the stock set up. Iceman in Nevada City, Ca '01 F650 GSA Super Motard
• I had my seat modified by a local seat guy too. In case they aren't already doing this, have them make the sides a bit narrower too. That should help a little more if they can't take it off the top. I also second the recommendation that you ride more before you start messing with the forks. I'm assuming that the main reason you want it lower is because you want both feet on the ground when you come to a stop. Try sliding your butt sideways off the seat when you stop - just enough that you can get one foot flat (and leave the other on the peg). The bike will feel much more stable then trying to tiptoe on both feet. Once you get used to it, the height won't be such a big deal unless your on sloping/uneven ground. Rebecca
• I wanted to offer a bit of reassurance that you can get used to not having both feet flat on the ground and still ride [and stop] with confidence. I've been riding for a little more than two years and started on this bike, so I don't know what it's like to ride and stop with two feet flat on the ground [except for the awful, awful bikes I rode during the MSF classes in April 2001], but it doesn't bother me at all now, though it did bother me a lot when I first started riding. A friend of mine [another short woman riding a bigger bike -- a Ducati] said it well when she told me that she just makes sure she never rides into situation or parks in a situation where she can't get her bike out by herself. We both often get off our bikes and move them around, rather than duck-paddling them [maneuvering the bike while still sitting on it]. And if I do get in a situation, I am no longer embarrassed or afraid to ask for help. Set the suspension at the lowest setting possible and that makes a significant difference. I ride my bike like that all the time, unless I have it loaded up with a lot of gear, and then it lowers itself. Anyway, good luck and enjoy the bike. There are more than a few of us vertically-challenged folks out there on the F650s. NancyK764 01 Titan Blue Illinois
• Having spent a summer uncomfortable with the stock height, I talked to local dealer who said that with labor, the cost of a new after mkt. lowering kit would be $1500 (he said I could handle the problem less expensively by buying a Corbin seat!). After reading some of the posts on this board ('...has the bike really been lowered'), I'm have second thoughts about this investment. Lyn
• I bought my GS already lowered from the factory so my wife could ride it. Being 4"11, we also put one inch in her boots. Now she has no trouble touching the ground. I've found the bike was too low for me. I got a taller seat, my problem was ground clearance and scraping the pegs with my riding habits so I lifted mine up to standard. With lifting my bike up, I found out how BMW lowered them. To raise mine, I had to buy front fork internals, a spacer, a rod, a botting out spring and a complete rear shock. The rear shock cost me $650 Australian dollars. My recommendation to lower is to buy the lower rear shock, do not change the internals of the front forks but slipping through the clamps 40mm that will balance with the shorter rear shock. The rear shocks bolt straight in and straight out, no modifications needed. The only difference between the two different shocks is there's half the windings of the spring with the lower shock. So you may get away with just buying the spring but not the entire shock. The only other problem I've got now and I have been working on it till this day is to slip the fort 40mm will require spacers that rises the handle bars. Without the risers, you can only move it 22mm. I am making my own risers. Mike
• I'm 5'5" w/ 28inseam and so far, the stock low seat helps me get one foot down w/ the other foot not touching the ground. Its actually ok for most situations but I always have to be careful especially when looking for good parking. Any experiences w/ lowering your bike? I'm in the process of ordering the Wunderlich extra low seat and I hope it will help me reach more ground. GS. jagged
• Psychologically you may "feel" more confident with two feet firmly planted on mother earth, but it is not imperative that you are flat footed----- it is all in the brain. The issue here is confidence in your ability. You do not need to be flat footed to be a proficient rider; although your brain tells you otherwise. I've been riding for 30 years and 300k miles and have NEVER been able to put 2 feet flat on the ground. I am vertically challenged and there is nothing I can do about my inseam dimension so I have learned to accept it and live with it. Granted, I've done lo-seats, cut foam, had custom seats made, etc, but it is all a COMPROMISE---- cutting the foam reduces the comfort, lowered (links )suspension reduces ground clearance, short shocks reduce rear suspension travel, drop the forks in the triple clamps changes the trail, etc, etc. What vertically challenged riders need to do is to get your fanny off the seat at stops---slide you fanny over on either side of the seat depending on the grade of the road. After you practice this enough, it becomes automatic and you need not even think about it any more. Becomes a reflex like blinking your eye. 02 F650GSLA; factory low frame. It puts me as close to the ground I've ever been, but I really need to be AWARE on left hand corners. When at speed; I'm grinding the side stand. If I hit hard enough on rougher roads, there is the danger a pivoting me off, so I have to ease off the throttle in the twisties. I thought about taking it off to give me more clearance---and slowing down would be another option !! Steve#1059 GS in MA
• I am 5'4" tall. At first I felt a lot more secure with the preload set to low and my riding boots with an extra thick sole. Once I got used to riding and stopping on tip toe(s) I now ride, without problem on the highest setting, both on and off road. Having said that I will use rolling mount / dismount and centre stand mounts if the height / weight / position are not conducive to getting on "properly". I can also slow ride / manoeuvre better than most because I HAVE to practice these things, as feet down is often more risky than some low speed maneuvering. jamesjriley
• Same inseam (5'-5" w/ 29" inseam) as you and I wouldn't hesitate to ride anything I can get my hands on. There are more comfortable (read "confidence inspiring") bikes but when it comes down to it a toe on solid ground is all it takes to keep the bike up. I am more concerned with higher center of gravity! My Honda CX is very top heavy and has given me a number of minor spills over the years. The F650 is not too tough though not as manageable as the Transalp, which was so easy to handle that it was hard to believe. Too much is made of the height of the bike. Of course I wouldn't want to have to manoeuvre an MZ Mastif everyday if I could avoid it unless I could have a slave available to put a box down at each stop (or help me pick up the beast every time I drop it). Rand #1111
• Hi!! I think I qualify as short at 5'0". My inseam is just under 27". I ride the F650 with no problem at all. I have the 2002 F650 GSA. I put on the Kouba links which lowered it 1" and also pushed the forks up thru the triple clamps 1" to keep the geometry of the bike the same. I was really fine with just the lowering links, but I did get the Wunderlich low seat and I recommend it highly, for comfort as well as a little more foot on the ground. Check out ASCYCLES.COM. They have the Wunderlich for $399 and the last time I checked, the other websites I found it on have upped the price to $529. It's well worth the money IMHO. I think alot has to do with confidence too. You didn't mention how long you have been riding, but at first, I think you do need to feel you have most of your foot on the ground while learning. With a couple of years under my belt, I felt more comfortable on tiptoe and the "slide the butt to one side" method. However, I go pretty good thru the twisties, and I haven't noticed the lowering links interfering with that. If you feel you need to be lower, go for the links. You can always take them out later if you decide you're okay with less foot on the ground. GRITS
• 5.5 ft and 28" inseam...'02GSA with no lowering and no problem. Indeed, part of my selecting the 650 was the seat height for street riding (the competitors 650's were just too high for me); I don't put my feet down too much off road, so I don't mind sliding my big rear to the side, or hopping on. Greg #1245 SEVa
• Now for the first time at 5"8 I feel tall. I ride the Dakar and have to agree with bmwterrien2 that two flat feet is completely unnecessary. The comfort derived from the increased distance between seat and pegs is well worth having to touch tiptoe on both feet or one flat foot with bike leaned over or one flat foot with butt hangin' off. Besides, you ride with both feet on the pegs, not the ground. Why set your bike up for optimum comfort when stopped? SScratch '01 Dakar Nashville
• I'm with SScratch on this one, especially the last comment. I'm 5'7" 30" inseam and have the regular GS. I was flat footing it but put the higher Dakar seat on to improve riding comfort, takes just a bit of kink out of the knees. Much more important to me than getting my feet flat on the ground. This puts me up high enough so that I just get the balls/toes of my feet on the ground, which doesn't bother me any. Flat footing is overrated, but it definitely depends on the individual rider. '03 black F650GSA Runaway #1259 (CO)
• Doesn't matter how short you are. You can ride anything given the inclination and desire. The key is the controls not flat footing it. Comfortable sitting and reaching the lever and pedals you're fine. The rest is semantics. davidhpark711
• However if you are a short-ass and want to keep some ground clearance then you could look at some accessories like:
  • Portable wooden blocks on a rope (silly)
  • Platform Bike boots (Works well!)
  • Bark Busters (if you are going to drop da bike then don't snap the controls)
  • Engine bars (more bike protection)
  • Aluminium bash plate (regains ground clearance if lowered)
  • Flush indicators (the sticking out ones fall off way too easily)
  • BMW training video (small lady picking up big bike)
  • Seth & Crusty Demons video (shows how-to and how-not-to fall off) or
  • Roll of good duct tape (if you drop it, something will break and you can fix it). James riley
• I'm a shortie [and on the sbl, but i never post anymore... not much there of interest to me, usually] I ride a 2001 F650GSA, am not quite 5' 2" and *never* have both feet flat on the ground. It bothered me a lot at first, but I'm pretty used to it and like you, just have to be extra aware when trying to find parking, or looking where I stop so that I'm not on an incline to my left or right [uphill and downhill no longer give me trouble]. I love the bike, the way it handles, how it feels, so I am willing to work a little harder when it comes to managing it at slow speeds and stops. The extra low seat is on my wish ist, but is still darn spendy. I've thought about the Kouba links, but gotten no farther than that. Let me know how the Wunderlich seat is, if you get it... NancyK '01 Titan Blue Illinois. NancyK764
• I'm a pretty short guy, around 5'9", 30" inseam, and with the Corbin I can still put both feet down (toes only). At first blush, it did seem like I was riding *over* the bike, which was a little discombobulating, but I went out to a local parking lot and did figure 8's and max brakes for a while and really got used to the feel of the Corbin. So the bottom line is that yes, it is slightly higher - but no, it wasn't a problem. The bike isn't leaning significantly when I put one foot down flat at a light. Seacuke #1214
• I'm 5'1" with an unususally short inseam. The factory low frame and low seat combo does it for me. I'm not quite flat-footed, but stable enough (especially with the low COG) to feel confident on it. The one I test-rode had the low frame and a custom Rich's seat, and I was indeed flat-footed with that one. Roadstergal