Tire Opinions FAQ

Dunlop 491

• What Chris said. ...Dunlop USA never told the factory in France that they wanted 17 D604 tires this year. Which means that for the time being, the rear tires are basically fabricated out of unobtanium. Michelin has their act together. If you need to ORDER tires that you MUST have, do NOT trust lying SOBs to have the Dunlops in stock. Get the T-66's.; (Flash #412)

• Although I haven't tried them, sounds like the Dunlops (491? something like that) get mileage in the 15-20K range and people seem to be happy with them. my favorite so far has been the Michelin T66, which got me about 12K miles. I ride hard, so I was surprised to read that others have gotten quite a bit less mileage from their t66s. If you're looking for mileage only, the Dunlops are the way to go.  (Mark #403)

• Nobody mentioned Dunlop, 491 Elite's, which have been exceptional tires over the years. Many F650 owners are using these with great results. I know one Iron Butt guy, that is using these on his F650; Barry in Semi Valley, Ca. (member here). I've also got them on my Iron Butt veteran bike(R100). (Randy748)

• Some are using the Dunlop street, 491's with good success. (Randy#748)

• I run Dunlop 491's on my ST. I got 18,000 out of the rear and I'm over 20,000 on the front. The front still looks great. It may last as long as the rear. Wouldn't trade those tires for anything else on that bike. (Jonathan #145)

• If you are only riding street, go with the Dunlop 401 on the front that's good for 25,000 miles and the 491 (MT90-17) on the rear that's good for 15000 miles. (jpd #793)

• I've had a set of Dunlop K491 Elite IIs on my 97 F650ST. The rear tire has over 16K on it and the front tire has even more. They both need replacing, which I will do later this winter, but there's still 500 miles left on them. (Raleigh619)

• The ultimate tires for mileage are the Dunlop Tour Elite 491 in 17 inch for the rear. These tires routinely go 15,000 miles on much heavier bikes than the F650. But it will be in Harley size, not metric. For the front of a regular GS (as opposed to the Dakar) it might be possible to get a 491 to fit it, or you might try a Dunlop 401 0r 402 touring tire. The Metz 880 definitely fits the GS front and will probably do just fine. echo

Dunlop 604

• No one has yet mentioned my Avon Gripster, which suits me quite nicely. Used them on my R100GS with great success and find that it works well on my '99 F650. I ran the Dunlop 604's and don't advise them. Still running the front with my Gripster, but the rear was not to my liking. Got sideways and almost high sided twice on pavement with the D604 and have not experienced that with any other tire. Seemed lacking in grip to me. Got 4,500 miles on the rear, but should have chucked it in earlier due to its slipperiness. Also only got 4,500 miles on the Trailwings and probably won't get any more than that on the Gripster, but it gives me confidence that was never there with the D604. (vfour)

• I just swapped a rear D604 for a Metzler Tourance if that tells you anything. They're OK and the price is good. I left the front on 'cause it still has a lot of tread. I put the Dunlops on (had TKC80's) just before a 5K road trip last summer and have put 2 or 3K miles on since. There's still a little tread left at the center but I had a flat and decided to just get a new tire. None of the street oriented DS tires work very good on anything softer than a dirt road compared to something like the TKC80. The Tourance looks like it has a little larger void between tread blocks at the shoulder of the tire but I'm not planning on heading into any bogs or across sand dunes with it either. (Mike639)

• I got about 4,500 miles out of the rear Dunlop 604. The front is still going at about 7,000. (vfour)

• After 1,500 miles including some twisties and some semi-serious off road, I like them a lot (Dunlop 604).  (Mike #779)

• Good comments on Dunlop D604 tire at http://pages.cthome.net/bmantel/D604.htmm (Gerry #951)

• 34 and 46 psi cold. Checked them at noon... the rear was SIXTY-FIVE psi. I don't wanna quote the miles. But I THINK I got well under 3k off the rear. The front is still fine. I hadda run the rear at 53psi cold to get reasonable rise. That is just WRONG. I tried adding air at one gas station and my tire had more pressure than the compressor would supply. Sheesh. - Nope, waiting six weeks for the tire Dumlop forgot to order was NOT worth it. Shoulda got some T66's. (Flash #412)

• I removed the old TrailWings and installed the new Dunlop D604s yesterday. I went for a highway ride some 50 miles in the rain with the new tires. When I made my first turn to the freeway on-ramp it was as if riding a different bike. Very different feel. My front TrailWing had 16 thousand miles and the rear had 8 thousand. The feeling of the new Dunlop’s reminded me of cutting into the most tender pork tenderloin. Ahhhh. Will in CA

Assorted

• I was just looking for tires on the net and the Dunlops are almost half the price of the T66's and I can't imagine that they are only half as good. It has me thinking twice about the T66's.... (Chris #782)

• I have not tried them myself but a friend had them on his bike. He was not too impressed with them. On road handling was ok. Off road not great and they didn't last very long. He did not buy them again when replacement time came.  (Homeless CO)

• The Incredible Disappearing Tire Trick. Here’s how it works:
  1) Buy a Dunlop K550 for $135 in Caracas - purported to be a 50/50 on/off tire.
  2) Drive it a 70-80 mph in tropical heat for 2,000 miles to Manaus, Brazil.
  3) Observe how at the end of the journey exactly 1.5 mm of tread is left.
  It´s really much easier than it sounds. Ed, the proud owner of a new Michelin Sirac in Manaus

• I threw a Dunflop 591 on my rear wheel a couple of months ago, to go with my half-worn Avon Distanzia front tire. My bike seems to be handling fine and I haven't had a slip-out yet, even on wet pavement. Frankly, I don't see much difference in performance on dirt roads between a 100% street tire and the latest 90% street/10% off-road tires, like the Distanzia or Tourance. They work OK on dry dirt or gravel and don't have any noticeable traction on mud or sand. Richard #230

6006

• The local mechanic, who I have known for a few years really likes the Maxxis tires he's running. They look like a good dual sport, leaning towards the dirt side...I like that. http://www.motorcycletireplanet.com/itemspecs.asp?IID=176 Mail order in the US; $30 front $50 rear. Rad

• I have used them on a 7000km trip up through the centre of Australia across way too much tar (4500km at 130km/hr), rocky dirt and sand (other 2500km at around 60-100km/hr) on my Dakar. I really liked them in the sand, tracking straight and I was almost always where I pointed it. The front was still good for another couple of thousand at the end but the back was shagged from the tar riding. Cheap here in Australia as well. I have also used them on a different ride in mud and found them to have good grip there too. There are going to be better tyres for mud and soft dirt but if you are travelling a bit of tar to get there the more specific-use tyres are really going to wear quickly. I was also surprised at their grip in twisty tar. Jas

• I've run the Maxxis 6006, it is a decent econo 50-50 tire, works well on the on the pavement, much better than OEM racing slicks off-road! MC

• I’ve run the Maxxis on my Africa Twin as well. Great tyres. I reckon about the same Conti TKC80 on the dirt but not quite as good on the tar. The tyres cost about $130 rear and $100 front. [Australia ed.] Greg

• Best 50/50 tire I've run... Still need to try the TKC80's though. Kevin

• At one point I mounted a set of Maxxis knobbies on my f and road manners were bad. Went like stink in the dirt, though. Crazy thing was, the road manners weren't any better, or worse, riding home from an off-road jaunt with 15-18psi in them than they were at road-spec tire pressures. David #476

Karoo

• I preferred the Karoo's over the Conti's due to the tread depth. Although the Karoo's are DOT approved, they appear as aggressive as a full off road knobby. They won't work as well on the street like a dual sport, but I didn't expect them to, nor would I use them there much at all (iceman #975 )

• IMO, with 50/50 or more offroad, the Karoos beat the TKC`s hands down, with just a little less life. In my case, about 500 less ( 3400 mile average with the TKC`s, and 2900 mile average with the Karoos). The off-road and gravel performance difference is enough for me to lose the 500 mile average. On-road, wet and dry, the handling is about equal, that`s on a Dakar and KLR650. (Skip)

MEZ2

• In the US, both the MEZ2 and ME33 tires have been phased-out my Metzeler. They have been replaced by newer street tires that I don't believe anyone has tried on an F650 yet. (Richard #230)

• I now have a Metz Z2 which is great on the street and I'm considering the Tourance for my next tires. (Leo #699)

• When I went to Bob's BMW, they put MEZ 2 on the back and ME33 on the front. I had switched to an 18 front wheel (a trade with another chain-ganger). I am now having the rear tire replaced 10,000 miles later. I do a lot of highway riding, and I was very happy with these tires. They did a great job sticking around fast corners. (Thumpr)

• If you're going to be riding road only, you may want to consider the Metzeler MEZ2, which is the stock tire for the F650ST, and also a very good road tire. (Mason #631)

• Iffen I wuz you, I wouldn't make my decision on tires just yet. I had an ME33 lazer front and an MEZ2 rear on my Classic and HATED the rear tire. The bike isn't heavy enough for this tire. I would imagine that the ME330 front and ME550 rear combo would be PERFECT for an ST. And even if you have an ME33 front with an ME550 rear, THAT would be preferable to the stock set-up, in my opinion. The MEZ2 sucks so much that it actually blows. And blows hard. They might be fine on something porky and slow like a K-bike or an oilhead but the F is just not heavy enough for the MEZ2. I'd withhold judgement on the ME550 until you've put a few miles on it first. Also, an ME33 that's been on your bike for over two years is a worn tire no matter how much tread it has left. Metzelers are great when they are fresh but when they get old, they get stiff and hard (I deleted the obvious joke that should be in this space). But if all you do is highway, it won't matter that much. I wouldn't want to push the laws of physics on an old Metzeler tire. (Shank)

Tourance

• The Metzeler Tourance is a fine tire and will work well with your Bridgestone front. (In the US Metzeler tires are premium priced and are typically much more expensive than Bridgestone, Avon or Dunlop tires. (Richard #230)

• I have Tourances on my '99 F and do quite a bit of riding in the wet (Western WA). I can't compare them with the Michelins, but can say they are better in the wet than the stock Bridgestone Trailwings that came with the bike when new. I like the Tourances. (Bob#550)

• Got 11,000 miles out of the Bridgestone Trailwings that came with my '99 Classic. The front tire could have gone further, but the rubber was developing those teeny cracks, so I changed both at once to Metzler Tourances. I have 14,300 on the bike now, and no visible wear on the tires. The Tourances are superior to the Bridgestones on pavement , with more precise feel and more secure cornering. Better in the wet, too. My sense is that the Bridgestones were better in dirt and gravel, though most of my riding is on pavement. (Bob#550)

• If you do a little gravel road-driving, not only tarmac -- nothing beats Metzeler Tourance. Tourance both front and rear. Front 100/90-19 M/C 57 S, Rear 130/80R17 M/C 65S TL Tourance Steel Radial  (tst)

• I've just bought a new Metzeler Tourance rear tire today. The replaced one lasted for 20.000 Km. Wouldn't recommend any other tire for the bike. (Tst)

• Tourance is a great tyre - excellent tread pattern which is IMHO better than T66, does not block when wears and also tread has good profile onto side wall allowing one to really lay the bike over. Manages fine on dirt (obviously not as good as a knobby) but as with most of these dual sport tyres best on road. OH and importantly the compound is excellent, soft yes but I prefer to stay aboard rather than get extra miles. (Dominic)

• I've had both and Tourance wins this test every time, IMO. V pattern in T66 is lousy in dirt, especially in turns, where I had a slide out problem with them. (Randy #748)

• I find the Tourance the worst tire that I've tried on the f650 on any kind of uneven (in the direction of travel) pavement, like rain grooves and tire track undulations. I've also ridden the stock Bridgestones, t-66, and tkc-80s. even the tkc-80s handle uneven pavement better than the Tourance. If I ever go back to a street tire, I will likely go back to the t-66. for now, I'm happy with the tkc-80s on street and dirt. (mark #403)

• I have had Tourance in rear for about 3 months now and I am very happy with it. A friend has E4 and I got to ride his bike too. Maybe it is the habit now but Tourance feels better on pavement. I commute on my 650 on everyday...(John K)

• I've put 3,000 miles on my Tourances and have nothing but good things to say. They ride well dry/wet and are, as you say, confidence inspiring. My commute includes a steel grate bridge deck & the tires track well when crossing dry, or wet. (Andy #618)

• My F650GS with Tourances has 7,650 on the odometer and the rear looks good for at least 3,000 miles more. It's not flat spotted anywhere due to the twisties I ride to work and only a few drones on the freeway of any length. I'm 220 lbs and usually ride with at least 20 lbs in the bags. (Northwet #1101)

• For street riding the best I've had on my bike is the Metzeler Tourance. Good handling and good mileage. Around 10K miles on a rear and more on the front. (Homeless)

• I loved my Tourances. After some 10 000 km ( 6 200 miles) they must be changed. Strange wear pattern, with a flat spot rear and a front tire worn-out at the sides. (Haakon #626)

• I have been using Metzeler Tourance tires on my F650GS since I got her two years ago. I have been very pleased with the combination of grip and wear from these tires but since I have 7,000 + miles on them its time to order replacements. (davemishalof)

• I am happy with the Tourance-it is probably a 90/10, highway / dirt road tire. (bmwterrien)

• My limited experience (19,000 on my F650) has shown me that Metzeler Tourances work really well in my rainy corner of the world. Much better on wet pavement than the OEM Bridgestone Trailwings! Bob#550

Assorted

• The 550 should work fine for your ST. The ride might be slightly stiffer than the M2, because they are bias-ply tires and not of radial construction. The 550 and 330 apparently have replaced (or are replacing) the ME55A and ME33 tires. The are strictly street tires, of course. Give them a try and let us know what you think. (Richard #230)

• According to the latest Metzeler tire catalog application chart, the F650ST (the pure street version of your bike) uses a 100/90V18 M33 front tire and a 130/80HR17 ME2. These were the stock tires that came on the bike. You can also try the manufacturer web sites for tire application recommendations. (Richard #230)

• Though the T66 is OK I find the Metzeler better in every respect. Even works better on dirt roads.  (Homeless)

• I wanted high mileage tires on my 2001 Dakar and the tires I have used on other BMW bikes - Metzeler's. This brand has served me well in mileage and performance. So, I put Metzler's Lazer 21 on the front and ME 880 on the rear. (Bumblebee #702)

• As there is no ideal tyre for ALL terrain conditions, you have to ask yourself honestly what sort of riding you will be doing most of. I have had 3 different tyres on my '95 and can recommend the Metz Enduro 4 as the best road-biased rubber for the F650. The Michelin T66 is too hard, especially when aged. Good for upright touring in the dry, but dodgy in the wet. If you really want to ride dirt and road enjoyably to the limit of tyre performance, you will want two different bikes or, at the very least, two sets of differently shod wheels! (TomVee)

• I`ve got Metzelers on. A TKV11 on front (classed as sports tyre) and Conti Avenue on rear (classed as sports milage). This is in England and if you`re abroad they may come under different names. These are road tyres and I`ve never surpassed grip levels in the dry. They are very good in wet, and warm quickly. You will easily scrape your pegs on these, just chuck it in the bends no worries. I`ve embarresed many a sports bike rider with these on. They last well also and are cheap too ! Damn well nearly perfect, I probably wouldn`t try any other tyre. (r1speedyrider)

• I have ME33 lazer on the front & ME99A on the back both have to have tubes being a spoked rim. (Dave #365)

• Donna put a Metzler 880 on the rear of her 97 classic in May and has 7000 miles on it and it is not showing hardly any wear at all. I'd bet it will give her 12-15,000 total miles or more, easy. She had 12,400 or so miles on the original rear tire, which was either a Metzler MEZ 1 or 2, I can't remember. On the front of her bike (An ST so it has the 18 inch tire) is the original Metzler ME33Lazer with 19,400 miles on it. It is just now at the tread wear marks and we will replace it real soon. Even tho we have got a lot of wear on the Lazer, we are going to put a 880 on the front. I suspect it will wear just as long. (DaveJ#888)

• If you don't ride in the dirt, street tires are a good option. I ride my F650 to and in San Francisco everyday. I put on METZLER ME550 130/70/17 rear and ME33 Lazer 100/90/19 front.Rode them in the rain last week and was totally satisfied with them.In the twisties they handle way better than the T-66's i took off. (JIMTHEJET)

• Here we go again, and it is all my fault...... I was talking yesterday to the 3 Amigo's that just came back from South America. They were using Metzler 880 road tires. Gary said they are excellent for the 650's. Decent on dirt roads and wear very well. Just thought I 'd share this tidbit from a very very experienced rider. (Steve #1059 in MA)

• Used to run the ME33 on my R100GSPD with good results. But I had pretty good luck with Sahara 3s as well. I could touch the engine guards, which always got my attention. And the normally miserable Sahara 3 tire life was significantly worse with that kind of abuse. Harl #380

• My buddy actually raced with the ME33's last year on a DR with 21" wheel. Freaked out the race director (anything racing with a 21” wheel), but they worked pretty good. Gar #673

• I tried the Metzeler Enduro3 last time around and I got about 7500 miles from them. Chris

• Metzeler Marathon (ME-88) for good stick and high mileage. Flash #412

• I'll be using the ME88 rear and ME880 front for a coast to coast ride and the Utah 1088 this summer. I'll be counting on them for at least 15K miles. I'll get the /90s. My knobbies right now are 90s and my gas mileage actually got a little better compared to the Bridgestone Trailwing 80s – go figure. There is no clearance problem at all and as far as cornering goes I'm not really carving with studded knobbies. chppdlvvr

• I have been using ME88 and ME880 in my K75 for years. Usually front tire has been good for max 20 000km (12 000miles) and rear tire ~12 000km (8 000miles). I have ridden with these tires ~100 000km and have been really satisfied. Grip has been good in wet and dry. K75 is a bit heavier than F650, so you might get a bit more mileage from those tires with F650. Marko 

Anakee

• News is starting to filter out about this new tyre. I found this on a German website:
  Michelin Anakee: The new versatile Enduro tire. Since their beginnings in the 70's Enduro motorcycles experienced a considerable upswing up to its success with the Rallye Paris Dakar in the 80's. Today the new Enduro models lost their pronounced Offroad character to favour of better handling characteristics on the road something, but but at comfort and versatility won. Examples are for this above all models with middle and large capacity from 600 to 1,150 cm³ like the Honda Varadero, Suzuki v-river, triumph tiger and the BMWS R1150 gs, in addition, Honda Transalp and Suzuki Freewind or also the Yamaha XT 660. These Enduro machines of the new generation are in the city, on highway and motorway just as at home as in the light area and have a more or less strongly minted Offroad optics. They are versatile, in each area (bitumen, Offroad) on the way and for completely different employments suitably: Economical vehicles: for example of travels to the job Spare time: Drive on mixing straining partly road partly areas Long-distance: Large vacation routes with partner and luggage Michelin aligned the development particularly with the rubber mixtures, with tire architecture and with the tire tread consistently to these requirements. 100% silikahaltige rubber mixtures. Michelin used for the first time rubber mixtures with strengthening fillers from 100% Silika for a Enduro tire. These mixtures offer the following advantages: Compromise between wear and adhesion, which new yardsticks sets. optimal achievement and security on wet roadway. excellent mileage with constant product properties Also reinforcement over-crossed structure of tire for the optimization of the lateral stiffness and stability under load. A new Enduro profile with all characteristics of a road specialist: For the demand for a versatile use both on bitumen and in the light area Michelin equipped the Anakee with an optimal combination of Enduro and road profile. The direction of travel is against the newest tires of the road of segment ajar, profile block point forward with the rear tires, profile block point to the rear with the front tires, for the optimization of the wear picture. (Dave)

• Basically it is a new tyre from Michelin inherited from the T66, for dual sport bikes with a slant toward road rather than dirt. (Art)

• Michelin replaced the T-66 with the Anakee. Why did they do that? The Michelin site says the Anakee is for bikes from 600cc to 1500cc. We are at the bottom end of that range. I LOVE the T-66 but am not all that thrilled with the life I get. If the Anakee is for BIGGER bikes than ours, then surely I will get MORE miles out of one than I do from a T-66. The tread pattern looks more like a D604 than the T-66. I never really liked the looks of the T-66. But the FEEL is great. If I can get the FEEL of a T-66 on the road with the grip of a D604 offroad and the lifetime of a Bridgerock Turdwing, for $15 LESS than a T66... I'm shittin' in high cotton. (Flash #412)

• Today, 12/31/02, a rear Michelin Anakee arrived at my home. I ordered it from MAW back in September, I think. The delivered price was $121.52, which is about what they sell the tire for NOW that it is on their website. Dunno when I'll get around to mounting it. Might be soon. Dunno. The point is, if you were thinking of trying an Anakee, they ARE available NOW. (Flash #412)

• I went for a ride up the Poudre Canyon on my VERY tired (and quite ready to be retired) D604. A sweet hundred miles, which included about twelve miles of dirt, including bits of mud snow and ice convinced me that I NEEDED to change the rear tire. Ok, so now that it is changed... yesterday I rode to work. It looked pretty icky out and the (dunno) whether (it is gonna rain, snow or be sunny) man said it would warm up. I rode into the gloom. It is about seven miles to work. I went a bit of a long way, 30 miles by the time I got there. The whole time it was getting ickier and ickier. When I pulled into the plant entrance... it was snowing. I had a lunch meeting about twelve miles away. At lunchtime, I went outside to find... blue skies and warm temps. Woo HOOO! Nice ride to lunch. I was early. I did about twenty alternating circles in the vacant parking lot to scrub the new off the Anakee. This tire is at LEAST as good as the T-66 for highway stuff. Granted, I didn't do any canyon carving on it. But as crappy as the street surface was in the morning, and as well as it stuck, I am a happy camper. Handling is neutral. And the LOOK of the tread says that it should be lots better offroad. We shall see.  (Flash #412)

• Its about time for new rubber. The tourances are nearing the end at about 10Kmi. I'm thinking of trying the new Michelin Anakees. My Tourances are 100/90R-19 front and 130/80R17 rear. The Anakees are available in this size with an HB speed rating for the front and a 130/90HR-17 for the rear (80 stock vs. 90 anakee profile). The are also available in two larger sizes with higher speed ratings, wider tread and lower profiles. They are 1) 110/80HR-19 and 140/80HR-17; 2) 110/80VR-19 and 150/70VR-17. The additional cost for the larger/higher speed ratings isn't large. Now to my question: Will either of the larger size sets fit? Anyone tried larger sizes like these in the Anakee or any other tire? (Kevin #1092)

• I can tell you that the profile size (80 VS 90) is no problem at all. I run full knobs (130/90r17) with studs at the ends and have no problems... well, they come pretty close to the pavement when up on the center stand. You do run a risk with the wider tire; IMHO it's better to go with the 130. (chppdlvvr)

• Michelin Anakee report by Ilya ('02 BMW R1150GS/Adv). Courtesy of ADVrider.
  I put on a new set of sneakers last Friday, and I think I'm in love. I put about 150 miles on them on Saturday in mixed weather, and then another 30 on Sunday in pouring rain. I liked the tires overall, so I will try to consciously balance my feedback, to remove the bias. Here are my impressions:
  
  Handling:
  They'r-r-r Gr-r-reat!
  Stable in straight line, nice and smooth cornering transitions. Don't fall into turns as much as TKC80's (actually, I grew accustomed to that edge-of-the-cliff feeling, so at first it appeared that Anakees steered slower, but that went away as I got used to them.)
  
  Dry grip:
  The tires held well over dry sections of the road, whether bumpy or not. I went to check out chicken strips after the Saturday ride, and to my satisfaction could not find any. That alone obviously is not an absolute indication of the amount of available grip, but I wasn't about to go testing traction limits on New England's sandy/wet roads so early in the season.
  
  Performance in the wet:
  Absolutely love them! There are two criteria that I consider when judging a tyre’s performance in the wet: amount of static grip and amount of grip in a slide. The former determines what amount of lean/acceleration that will start the rear sliding, whether intentionally or not. The latter determines your ability to rein in and control the slide. I give the Anakees very high marks on both of those parameters. That is probably due to silica content in the tire compound. The tread also has a decent rubber-to-void ratio, and a good number of nice-looking edges between tread blocks. On the picture of the rear, you can see that there's even more edges coming into play as you lean over. In the picture of the floor, you can see the tread print. The density of edges and the amount of space looks pretty good.
  
  Puddles on pavement/hydroplaning:
  None to speak of. Rode on Sunday in pouring rain. High-speed passes over deep puddles only yielded more confidence in the new sneakers.
  
  Sandy pavement:
  As expected, these tires easily lose to TKC80's in this department. With TKC's the front always felt planted, thanks to numerous sharp edges and relatively small tread blocks. The front Anakee felt like it stepped somewhat when going over sandy patches while leaning. This is obviously normal for any street tire with large tread blocks, but was somewhat disappointing after feeling no slippage on the knobbies.
  
  Muddy pavement:
  I wouldn't have typically put this section in a tire review, except that I had an interesting incident worth mentioning. I was doing a familiar-to-me tight up-hill left-hander at about 50mph, and did not appreciate the fact that there was a new house construction site to the outside of the turn. I did not notice that there was a thin sheet of wet mud streaming down the bank of the turn until I was over it. At about the same time as I noticed the mud, the rear broke traction and started overtaking me on the outside. I was already leaning over the tank (Hey, that's weight on the front wheel fer ye), so I stayed on the throttle the whole time, and the slide continued through the turn and stabilized as the bike straightened at the end. The front tire stayed planted the whole time. The slide was very predictable, smooth, and not at all scary. In my mind, this reflects well on the tread pattern.
  
  Off-pavement:
  Like expected, not as planted as the TKC's, but no one expected them to be. Since I was in the "tire-testing" mode I was occasionally riding off the pavement onto the shoulder, and back onto the pavement, just to get a feeling for the high-speed stability. I came away from that relatively satisfied. It still feels like an adventure bike. I wouldn't go in the mud or sand, but for typical dirt/forest-road and campsite navigation they will do just fine.
  
  Longevity:
  To be determined, but contrary to another report posted here earlier, after the first 100 miles there was not a single injection nipple left on the face of the tread. It's possibly due to the excessive wheel-spin from me enthusiastically testing the traction limits, so I'll reserve my final judgement until I have more miles to base it on.
  
  They are indeed quiet. Although my most recent experience was with TKC80's: the front was badly cupped, in addition, so a freight train would seem quieter, I'm sure. Overall I give them two official tire-rating thumbs up (out of possible two).
  
  "I HAVE NOT HAD TOURANCES ON MY GS". I intended for this report to be not a comparison, but a stand-alone reflection on the tires' performance. The only other tires I had on my GS were Metzeler Enduro4 and Conti TKC80. Anakees are light-years ahead of Enduro4's in terms of handling and wet riding. I will try the Tourance after the Anakees are gone, just to complete the program. But if for some reason Metzeler discontinued them (don't worry, it's just for the sake of argument) I would have been perfectly happy to continue using Anakees when riding on the street.
  
  I got the Anakee's from www.swmototires.com for $99.95/front and $116.95/rear. Total of $216.90 for the pair (free shipping.) I wasn't shopping around, I just knew they were shipping by air, and I wanted new tires SOON. Seems like a decent price anyway.
  
  
  
  Update:
  I think you've lost me as an unbiased information source. I'm hopelessly in love with the Anakees. I had a chance to ride them for ~700 miles in the wet, in the dry, on dirty and clean pavement, on road shoulders, on dirt roads, even on my lawn (okay, so they aren't all that great on wet grass, but what tires besides knobbies are?) and I am ready to recommend them to anyone who is willing to listen.
  
  You should understand that I'm not very nice to tires. When I ride, I usually aim for sand patches and spin the wheel whenever I can. I also try to slip the rear accelerating out of sandy turns and over road snakes. Partially for fun, and partially because I think it is a good thing to be familiar with those manoeuvres in case you get to do one without your intent. So far the Anakees are proving to be very reliable and predictable all-weather tires. I refuse to comment on longevity until I'm close to finishing a set.
  
  I'd say if you are choosing between Tourances and Anakees, go with Anakees, 'cause Tourance is a known and universally-accepted tire, whereas Anakees are still an underdog and need you and I to try them and prove to the world that they are even better. Besides, by choosing Tourances you are locking yourself into them for a good 10K miles.
  
  Here are my tires after ~700 miles. Note the front: round as ever; no scalloping to speak of so far, even after all those stoppies.
  
    Ilya
   

• I just read a thread over on the BMW MOA site under F650 where Motorrad magazine tire test results are posted. In German of course but there is a bit of translation. I'm pretty amazed that the TKC80 was rated best for price/mileage. I'll have to lower my mileage expectations for the Anakee. The Anakee was rated best performer according to the person that did the translation. These tires were tested; Distanzia, Trailwing, Escape, TKC80, Tourance and Anakee. Not thrilled with getting tires from MAW (Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse) again but they seem to be the only ones that have them listed.
  (94623) $99.95 Michelin Anakee 110/80HB19 Front Tire
  (94626) $109.95 Michelin Anakee 140/80HR17 Rear Tire
  Tires Unlimited tell me they have the Anakee, they just don't have it on the web site yet. You'd have to call to order them from these guys. They quoted me $23 for shipping to CA.
  100/90 19 Michelin Anakee front $92.20 (11 lbs.)
  140/80 17 Michelin Anakee rear $112.69 (17 lbs.)
  Brad #1002

• I got my Anakees (140 & 110 radials) mounted yesterday at the Hardley shop and I put ‘em on the bike late last night. This afternoon went about 150 miles. I ran 34psi front and 38 psi rear - I think this is going to be about right on the tarmac at my weight. The first thing I noticed is how quick and nimble steering was and how quite they are compared to my old tires, but remember that I was running 10,000+ mile old Tourances and the rear tire was more square than round. After I got 50+ miles on ‘em I was into the twisties and I must say that my Tourances hadn't been able to hold like these Anakees in the corners for several thousand miles – if ever. They inspired my confidence enough for the pegs to find the road – something I haven't done in a long time. I am very pleased. One thing I did notice – at lower speeds I could feel the tread block pattern through the handlebars – nothing big, just barely noticeable. I don't remember the Tourances ever doing that. After I get ‘em broken in it might/probably will go away. The Tourances were much louder than the Anakees but a little smoother. I think the Tourance noise was lower pitched and more noticeable, and the Anakees is significantly higher pitched and less noticeable. I didn't get off road or run into rain, so nothing to report there. So far I like the Anakees better than the Tourances. Kevin #1092

• Terrific grip, half decent on dry off-road surfaces, unbelievably good in rain. In short: my bike feels totally different, I feel safer, particularly when running up and down passes. Now at 1200 miles with Anakee: been through rain, heavy winds and cold weather and can only say that the difference is unbelievable (Metzeler Sahara 3, before), particularly when the wind is pushing with 7 Beaufort directly from the side. The Metzeler was unmanageable (just shoved you off the road). With these tires you just lean a bit more and continue without any speed reduction. misdt

• I'm happy with my Anakee. I have about 1000 miles on it, I think, and it looks like it'll wear just fine. But NONE of those miles are fully packed and running wide open across the baking West. Flash #412

• I currently have a set of 604's on my classic. They do work very well but the rear tire will be gone in 3000 miles. I did talk to the reps at the dealer show in Indy about the Anakee. They said that this tire is intended to replace our beloved T66. I was told that this tire will out-perform and out-last the T66 in mileage. I plan to try a set after this new set of 604's melt. Steve#417

Enduro3/Sahara

• The MT21's or Dunlop 903's are as knobby as you can get and still be DOT approved. I just did White Rim on my stock Bridgestone Trailwings and the bike had a hard time in the sand. I just bought the Enduro 3 Sahara for the rear. I hope it is a good 50/50 on road/off road tire. (Mark #743)

• I use an Enduro3 Sahara rear on my '99. As a compromise tire, I'm fairly happy with them, fine for dirt/gravel roads. I would NOT compare them as dirt/mud/sand MX capable as the TKC80 looks to be but I've pegged the bike a few times on them. I'd be reluctant to peg the bike on a TKC80. I would NOT call the Sahara a full out road tire either. First one was made in Germany, rated for 40psi max, second made in Brazil, rated for 36psi max - same model tire. I only get 5k miles out of them, same as my Bstone TW rear, which was poor off-road. YMMV - tire choice is one of the biggest and most subjective compromises a rider has to make.  (Todd #389)

• I've had 10, 000km out of set of Michelin Enduro's - I think the Sahara 3 is frankly a better off road tyre with its more aggressive tread pattern but its a little wasted if you're not into dirt - I'd stay with the Michelin next time around. (Pit)

• These tires (ed. Sahara 3) came on my 2001 KTM Adventure. With 1700 miles so far, they are to be wearing more quickly then the Tourances on the Dakar. I am riding more miles on dirt/gravel then the Dakar, though. I think that I will get about 3500 miles on them at the current wear rate. My riding has included 80% twisty turny roads at decent speed, 15 %gravel roads at as fast as I dare, and 5% trails, with rocks galore, and my personal demon, MUD! They suck in MUD! Did I mention that I hate MUD! (Chris #1073)

• My Sahara's are at 3mm and 4mm, at 5,000 miles; expect another 1,000. Riding about 30% dirt overall. (Shaun)
• I have not been satisfied with the Enduro 3 on my '03 Dakar. Poor handling and short life span. I will be ordering a set of Avon Distanzias for the next go around. It appears to be these or the Dunlop 604's for the Dakar in street oriented riding. They both come in the proper size for the Dakar. (Jeff #398)
• My Dakar came with sahara 3's and I must say they handle extremely well on the street wet or dry. You feel the knobbies on a hard street surface though, and they roar a bit there also. I do not have much experience with them of road however they appear to be better than the Tourance in that department. Downside: they are half worn out at 2k miles! I have a set of Tourances in the basement as I also ride mostly street. (paul)
• Got 8,000 out of my first Sahara 3 rear and I don't think I took it easy at all. I do check the air weekly. I replaced it with the same and have 3,500 on it already. It looks good for at least 7k miles. Any more than that and I'm pushing my luck...again...which I don't want to do anymore. (Gerry #951)
• I guess it depends how/where you ride - I only get 4-5,000 miles out of my rear Sahara's. (Todd #389)

Enduro4

• I went thru AK, the Yukon and BC on my '97 F with a buddy on a 1100GS. The 1100 had T-66's and I had a set of Enduro 4's. Both worked fine. (Ike)

Macadam

• I have many, many track and fast back road miles under my bike. Install a set of Michelin Macadam 50's and let her rip! They are full on street tires and will allow you to do a lot more on the track then any dual sport tire. (Craig #325)

• Question from Sandy #787 about her ST: stock Metzelers vs. Michelin Macadam's? Quality difference? Handling difference? Wear difference? I got about 9000 miles on my Metzelers. Some responses:

• Well Sandy, I'll reply having had Michelin Macadam's AND Metzelers on my Guzzi (close to the sizes on an ST, and the Metz that I had on the Guzzi were ME33 Lazer up front and ME99A Perfect on the rear, not the same as the (I think) MEZ2 that's rear stock on the ST but close enough). You don't mention whether or not you are getting Macadam radials or bias-ply (they come both ways), the Macadam's I had on the Guzzi were the bias-ply. Well, sad fact is that the Macadam's failed the Great Guzzi Tire Experiment. I hated 'em. The front scalloped horribly and wore out before the rear, in 6000 miles. (...) I really don't think you'll have a problem with the Macadam's. The set on my Guzzi were just fine in the rain. Handling was fine, braking was good but overall they did not inspire the confidence of the Metzelers. I think you'll find that the Macadam profile is much rounder than the Metz. Therefore you'll not have to fight them as much to get the bike over in a turn. But conversely, they will stand the bike upright should you apply some brake in a turn. With this in mind, expect the bike to turn in much easier, practically falling into the turn and you should be sensitive and light if and when applying any brake in a turn. You might get better gas mileage with the Macadam's as they seem to have a little less rolling resistance than the Metz (trying to recall all my notes, they are not in front of me) and they are very quiet on the road at highway speeds, very smooth. (...) The Macadam's are fine tires, I just don't think they are as good as Metzelers. (Shank)

• Can't speak for the Macadam's on the F650. I have Tourances on mine, However I am running them on my K-Bike. My feelings are similar to opinions expressed above: Not a bad tire but not nearly as confidence-inspiring as the Metzelers. There are two Macadam's for the front, a Mac 50 and a Mac 50E. I have the Macadam 50E which is supposed to be an improved version. It doesn't seem to hold a line as well as the Metzeler. The bike just doesn't seem as stable. Possibly due to the roundness mentioned above. As far as the rear, the Macadam 50 slid out from under me last October. Could have been a coincidence and yes the roadway was frosty, but the Metzelers have NEVER lost traction on me in what I remember as worse conditions. I've slid down 2 BMW's in a little over 26 years of riding them. Both times were on Michelins. I believe Michelin makes the best auto and truck tires available but I'll be going back to the Metzelers on my bike when these wear out. (Rick #939)

• My daughter has them (ed. Macadam's) on her 1991 R65LS. They are really made for a lighter bike than a Guzzi. She likes them, but I don't, because of their triangular tread profile. If you corner sharply the bike tends to fall in and then you have to hold your line with some counter-steering input at the bars. I prefer a more rounded profile when cornering. However, they are work fine on the freeway and around town. They provide good life, but the front tire does scallop, as Shank mentioned. If you are going on a long trip, I wouldn't spare the air pressure. I would use 34 in front and 36 to 38 in the rear, depending on your load. You should get at least 10,000 miles out of the tires (I only got 6-7,000 miles from my Michelin T-66 tires which came stock on my bike.) My current Avon Distancia tires look to be good for about 12,000 miles. P.S., Bridgestone BT-45 tires are working pretty good on my Honda CB750 and are really cheap. (Richard #230)

• I agree, Richard, I think the Macs were made for a sub-500 pound bike, the Guzzi is a little over that. BT-45s were also in The Great Guzzi Tire Experiment and received a can return to this tire rating. They rate just below the Metz. Basically, same confidence as Metz but with a rounder profile, easier turn-in. They only lasted 6000 miles, which is par for the course on the Guzzi (Cheng Shins only lasted 3000 miles). I'd highly recommend BT-45s. Right now in The Great Guzzi Tire Experiment, it's a battle for second place between BT-45s and Avon SuperVenoms. And I'd imagine that BT-45s would make a great tire for an ST. (Shank)

• I've gone through 2 sets of Michelin Macadam 90's and I like them a lot. They give a much smoother ride and handle better than the stock Dunlop K505's. I'm going to try the BT45's next (even though they're belted and not radials) because many Nighthawk owners report good handling and great tire wear. The stock K505's lasted about 9,500 miles, the first set of Michelins about 12,100 and I currently have about 9,000 miles on the second set. Update: I used the BT45's on my Great Lakes trip and they handled very well, especially in the 1,000+ miles of rain I encountered. The ride is pretty smooth, and they grip well in the twisties. (Andre)

Sirac

• I have had Michelin Siracs in my Dakar. I have ridden 5000 miles and rear tire is slick, also front tire has worn quite strangely (like waves every 2nd knobby is much lower than knobby next to it. Is this normal ?) I have kept tire pressure in 30psi all the time. (Marko Hemmila)

• I was NOT impressed by the performance off road with the Michelin Sirac. And highway wear was less than 5,000 miles. The Dunlop 604's seem to work better off road--everybody seems to have a different opinion! But, hey, if you have a new tire, go wear it out! (Mike #779)

• I had the siracs on my dakar and found them to be okay on the gravel. In the straights I could easily go 40+ mph. The thing is you have to get used to the bike moving under you. Ride the movement and guide the bike where you need to go. Mine lasted about 8000 mile at which point they were pretty bald in the center and not much left on the edges to speak of. (Sean STL)

• Q: In a previous thread there were some comments about the difference in riding the classic and the GS. Having owned both I thought that the GS seemed to have a tendency to want to stand up straight in the corners, not bad or uncomfortable, just different.
  I have just about worn out my back tyre, same brand and about the same milage as the tyre on my old 96 Funduro but the wear pattern is completely different. looking at the wear pattern on the GS you would think I had been using it on a drag strip. The middle of the tyre has worn almost flat and there is a ridge between the worn part and the sidewall which is hardly worn at all.
  My riding style and the area that I ride in has not changed ( I think ) so I guess that the wear pattern supports the theory I had originally. I have ended up going back to seracs as I was pretty happy with their performance overall but anoyher rider said I should maybe think of looking for a dual ply, harder centre and softer sidewalls. Any one heard of this feature (ratso)

• A: Some of Bridgestone's older street tires had a dual rubber tread, with harder rubber in the center and softer rubber on the sides of the tire. I tried their S-11 "sport touring" bias-ply tires on one of my bikes and found the tire to be very slippery in the rain. Bridgestone does not seem to be using, or promoting, this feature anymore and has never used it on their current radial tires, to my knowledge. (Richard #230)

• A: All rear drive tires on m/c wear flat in the middle because the machine spends more time vertical than leaning over , if you are a street rider. Now, the race track is different. Reg Pridmore's VFR tires are all worn on the sides, because that is were the bike spends most of its time. Once you change the tire,the bike will fall into the corners nice. (bmwterrien2)

• The rear Sirac lasted 10 000km and I found it to be a good tire on gravel. I wish I could get the same tire for my Adventure. I found the front tire to start cupping at 10 000km but still had at least 5000km more to go before needing to be replaced. I found you had to watch the mud though, I mean rear muddy stuff. Rick #815

T66/T66X

• I just replaced both T66s with fresh T66s. The ride improvement was incredible, even with the SAME tire brand/type. A lot may be just replacing old with new. (Marty #436)

• I just put a set of T66's back on my bike after 7K miles with the Bridgestone BT45's. I am very happy. Not cheap, though. They are very stable and more solid than the BT45's, probably because they are new and heavier as well. Can't wait to ride in the dirt. (Chris #782)

• T-66 has the best on-road feel of any tire I have tried on my F650. I've tried, Tourance, Bridgerock Turdwings, Dunlop D604, Sirac, and something else I can't remember right now. The T-66 is probably not as good offroad as some of the others. My offroad riding is mostly dry-dirt and/or gravel. Folks who ride in sloppy stuff probably prefer something other than a T-66. The T-66 gives quite reasonable longevity at a reasonable price, especially considering the on-road feel. The D604 I just tried was great on-road and off, and cost a bit less than a T-66. EXCEPT it went away EXTREMELY fast. Like HALF the life of a T-66. My riding is mostly canyon carving and touring. I'd say I do less than 20% dirt, maybe even less than 10%. I never stopped to calculate. If I have to slow down in the dirt due to the fact that the T-66 ain't so good there, so be it. Because I will more than make up the time on the highway due to the fact that it is SOOOOO good there.(Flash #412)

• 12,000 on my T66 rear and it was sketchy at that. I have 5,000 on a Bridgestone BT45 street tire and it looks like I'll be lucky to get another 3,000. I am getting T66's again next. (Chris #782)

• It is a mystery to me why both of my sets of T66 tires wore out quickly. My front tires were shot at 6,000 miles and the rears only went 7,000. They sure stuck well while they still had tread, though. Looks like my Avon Distanzia tires will double that mileage, but they don't seem to stick as well on wet roads. (Richard #230)

• I ride easy, relatively slow, and run light in usually cool weather and only got 6,000 miles on the front tire and 7,000 miles on the rear tire. However, note that both my sets of tires were made between 1996 and 1997, according to the DOT date codes. Maybe Michelin changed the rubber compound as larger bikes started using the T-66 tires near the end of the last decade. (Richard #230)

• Well, they don't say that they are a 90% street tire and 10% dirt tire for nothing. Michelin T-66 tires are just as bad off road, but they sure work well on damp, paved roads. (Richard #230)

• My experience is only with the T66. Great tire on pavement, still useable tread after 6500 miles. Awful on unpaved roads, no doubt even worse off-road. (Roy 1095)

• I got 7,100 on my Michelin T66. (Roy 1095)

• I have been using t66's on my 97 for the last 64k and have been happy. I have 1000 mile weekends the next 2 that will fry the remainder of my current set. I ordered Dunlop 604's for a try. I am using my priceless 97 as street only now and want smoother tires. We will see how they work. (Steve#417)

• I can't compare the T66 and Tourances on the 650, but I've worn them both out on the R11GS. I liked them both. The one place the Michelin has the edge is in ride comfort. I think the T66 is more supple over bumps. I also didn't find that the Tourance was noticeably better in the wet. The star there is the Pirelli. (Johnny)

• Just completed a spirited on/off road day yesterday on T 66's....ouch!!! Someone had previously posted that it took them about 8000 k for these tires to feel right on their bike. I now agree! They are starting to feel great on asphalt. Off road, or whatever one considers off road is a different statement. Slip sliding, skating, hydroplaning, riding on marbles, these are not meant for anything more than graded or serviced logging roads. Even a controlled slide is difficult due to the lack of a decent tread design. Once they go, it takes a lot of patience to wait for the back end to find grip again. Off road isn't something I back away from, and looking for little trails or downhill descents whilst flying along anything resembling a wilderness trail is something I relish. Yes, low tire pressure improves the situation, but not by much. Give it some serious thought on how much off road you will be doing. Most other brands mentioned on here (at least once a week) are a better choice for a combination tire. I'll be trying something else next time, or going back to Trailwings, as they are a good road tire, and much much better off road than the Michelins. Again, the T 66's are an excellent road tire. (RDW, Vancouver BC)

• I have found the t66 great in the dry but lack feedback in the wet and let go almost without any warning. I will be trying the Tourance shortly.  (Dakarau)

• I get ~8000 miles out of T66 rears on my F.  (Bryan #179)

• I average about 10k on the t66's. I usually change them before most people would though. (Steve#417)

• I got 10K out of my T-66, and could have easily gone another 2K (both front and rear), maybe more. I'm no lightweight and don't baby the throttle. kept the pressures up though. running Tourance now, will go back to t-66 next.  (mark #403)

• My second set of T66s, front and rear, is actually over 31.300 Km. First set lasted at about 38.000 Km, so I'll have to change them soon...
  Total bike kilometrage: 69.300 Km. Riding: On road, off road (trails) and city. By time, perhaps more time spent on city and off road. By kilometrage, on road. Hot, cold, sunny, raining, on snow..., etc. I always ride smoothly, because I have learned driving a motorcycle making trial, in severe conditions. And I have learned since then, that as more difficult is the way as more smooth have you to act with clutch, brakes and gas. Ah! smoothly don't means slowly... (Fede)

• I think everyone finds the T66 superior to the OEM Bstone Twing for road holding ability. There might be some debate regarding dirt riding, but not asphalt/concrete. (Todd #389)

• T'wings and T66s will do most everything that you can do with a street tire but, the opposite is not true! (art)

• T66 don't last all that long compared to BridgeRocks. But I think the price is well worth it for the increase in performance, feel and handling. TW's SCARE me. On T66, I can scare myself all I want to without having the tires let me down. (Flash #412)

• I got a chance to compare T66 on a loaner F650GS vs. my OEM Trailwings last month on both wet and dry pavement. I thought the T66 were great and will buy them when my tires wear out. The Trailwings are slippery compared to the T66. The T66 gives me more confidence on pavement and packed dirt, part of my 15 mile round trip daily commute, year round. The T66 gripped the road like snow tires and gave excellent feedback. There is NO FEEDBACK with the Trailwings. You feel the T66 and I like that. T66 for me next time. (Joe #1065)

• I am going to use 604's on my Dakar for commuting duty. I am going to stick with the t66 for my classic.  (Steve#417)

• T-66s: Best Road tire off-road....TKC-80s: Best off-road tire on pavement. (David#476)

• I have T66, and they are pretty highway/dirt road friendly. Flash swears by t66s as well for what is worth. I find the new t66's on my bike do not ride very well on tar over seams, but its not a big deal. My last T66 pair lasted 18000 miles (!) until I hit a piece of metal and gashed the rear. They rode a lot better worn in, that's for sure. (Rotax843)

• I agree that T66 are bad on gravel and dirt roads. I went down once. I'll try either the Tourances or the TK80s next.  (Roy 1095)

• I know I wouldn't buy another set of T66's. I had them on bigger R1100GS with same thing. Pretty good mileage, but terrible wear towards the end. Tourance is far superior in wear, IMO. (Randy #748)

• Go with the t-66. Out of the Trailwings, Tourance, and T-66, I find the T-66 to be the best dual sport street-oriented tire. If you take it onto dirt roads, make sure you take your pressures down to about 20psi/front, 24 psi/rear. you can even go a tad lower. Refill again before putting many miles of pavement on them. The t-66 aren't known for their dirt capabilities, but you can't beat them on the street. (Mark #403)

• I drive everyday. The temperature is above the freezing point - no matter if it rains or not. Since this is my first bike I have no experience with other tyres, but the handling seems Ok to me. The thing I like most about the Tyres is that they seem to last forever....I measured them 2.500 KM ago and again yesterday and the difference was ~0.3 mm. I've been driving 10.000KM since I got the bike (with used T66) and I predict that they will last another 5-10.000KM. So I guess in general they will last somewhere around 20.000-30.000 KM. (Spakur #1117)

• T66's for pavement and rain on my 97 Classic. (Norm#874 in NJ)

• Not familiar with the Anakee, but I would recommend T66s. Best all-around tire I've had on the F. The TKC's won't last, especially if you do much hi-speed highway. T66's will, and they'll do fine on gravel roads if you deflate them. I've had a pair on and off my F since the TW's wore out and I probably have 7-8000 miles on them by now. The T66's wouldn't be my first choice if I was planning on any serious off road. If that was the case I would pre-ship a pair of TKC-80's. David #476

Assorted

• I have just had Michelin fitted...I had Bridgestone's on before...after the first 100 miles running in they are brilliant. (Frankie shell )

• The 95 came with Michelins that were great and tasted 12000 miles. I replaced them with Metzler ME?? road tyres that were still OK at 18000. Hopeless off road of course. The 99 came with Tourances that were OK and did 10000 (Andy Leeds UK #982)

MT-21

• I've been riding Pirelli MT21's now for a few hundred miles, mostly off road. They are great off-road and decent on road. Brand new they were like riding on ball bearings in the street. Now that they are broken in though, they are OK. They whine bit over 60 and tend to shake a bit over 80 but are predictable and stable at slower speeds and in corners. (Boyscout)

MT-60

• I've had Pirelli MT60's for the last 5500 miles or so and am not impressed. They are very hard and take ages to get hot enough to grip in the wet.  (Andy Leeds UK #982 )

• I had Pirelli''s on my Classic. M60 or M66 or somthing likee that can't quite remember, but I liked them, at least on road and even in the wet. Lasted about 10500 miles. (Haakon #626)

MT-80

• I have the MT 80's on. Compared to the Pirellis I have used on other bikes, these are not as good. Grip in the wet is pretty poor, but they do seem to be wearing slowly. Hard compound I guess. I'll be back on Bridgestones next time, but nothing wrong with the Pirellis. (Andy Leeds UK #982)

• I think Pirelli is the only manufacturer that has made a point of manufacturing their tires for the wet and recommending them for it. I used a pair of MT 80s and they were better than others I've tried in rain, fine on dry, not so great on gravel/dirt. Johnny #862

MT-90

• On 2000F650GS replaced original rear Bridgestone Trailwing at 16000 km's, mainly because of upcoming trip, could have gone a few thousand more, front Trailwing will be replaced any day, with close to 32000 kms. New rear is Pirelli MT90, and with close to 16000km looks like it will do about 20000. Generally keep pressures a little more than recommended, about 29-30 pounds front, 31-32 rear. (Fitzy in OZ)

• I used to have them [Pirelli MT 90 Scorpion] on the bike. I bought the bike with them, so I have no idea about the mileage. They're pretty good, definitely not a very short life on pavement. I put 4k on them. They weren't new when I got them and they still have quite a bit of life left. For some reason the front tire looks a lot worse than the rear. That was also the case when I got them and got worse while I had them. Regarding handling, they're definitely better than the TKC's I have now (which aren't bad at all). I think it's mostly regarded as a cheaper Metzeler Tourance, which a lot of people love. its_xls

Assorted

• In September I put a matched set of Pirelli match 08 and match 09 (coincidence on the model name there) tires on my 97F. I've got about 3000 miles on them. previously I had Metzeler Tourance, which replaced the stock Bridgestone. I was looking for a 100% street tire that was high performance, and that I could get a matched set, i.e., one that would have a 19 front in the same model (what? no Dunlop 207's in a 19???? LOL...). a local BMW parts guy ran the Pirellis on his k75s, and commented that they were a good compromise of sport and wear, so I tried them. within a week, I had them out for a local track day. running at 32psi, they really became super sticky and performed great. really confidence inspiring. Another track day in October, with same feedback. since then, a daily commuter tire in the pacific northwest. Overall, I really like them. I had been looking at the macadam's (Michelin?, I forget....), but decided on the Pirelli, as the front pattern was a closed block, or what I consider a closed block, not an expert here.....anyway, great wear, great in rain..... a little less grip in the cold, but that's expected given the lack of wear that I've experienced,.... they are on the more $ side of things, but well worth it IMHO....I'd recommend them, if this is the type of tire you're looking for... (tom #981)

• You know your Pirellis are Metzelers in disguise. Pirelli owns Metzler. Metzler's claims their tires are hand finished, but for a big price difference, you can get the same carcass and tread compound for a lot cheaper with the Pirelli. I had a Pirelli MT08 on the rear. Same as the stock MEZ2 that came with my ST. They got the same amount of mileage and had the same traction, just a different tread pattern and a whole lot cheaper. (Johnathan #145)

• I'm running a Pirelli 160/60/17 on the rear. It requires a chainguard mod, removal, or replacement.  (iceman #975)

• I have Pirellis and am not impressed. They are very hard and take forever to warm up in the wet. The bike has also failed its annual inspection as they won't grip on a roller brake tester when the bikes stood waiting. I think they are going to last about 12000 miles (doh!). (Andy #982)

Other Brands

• My brother bought a set of "Vee Rubber" tires for his F for under $100 from Tucker Rocky. In my opinion, you shouldn't expect much in the handling or wear department from them. His rear is shot at 4.5K. The front shows hardly any sign of wear, but has always had a bad vibration in it. I don't know of anywhere you can get a mainstream name brand tire for much under $100. David #476

• Q. Ever heard of "Duro" brand tires? I need a new rear before heading into Brazil and I found a shop with a Duro brand tire with a decent 50/50 tread at $50. Made in Korea. Duro means hard in Spanish. A lot of the local kids have them on their Honda 125's. I'm a sucker for a bargain. Ed
  A. I have run a Duro on a DR650SE and it did as well as any other tire I put on that bike, mostly cheapo tires. For what it’s worth... Bert #1131

• My pal Crazy Charles sez: I want some of these in Pink http://www.cycletires.com/ I cannot believe they are making them. The ultimate fashion accessory... Flash #412

Sticky Tire Search

• I'm looking for a STICKY street-only tire for the stock rear wheel of my F650ST. It should be a 130/80R17. I WANT a radial tire. I want this tire for track days and screaming up the canyons. I do not care if it doesn't last long. I want STICKY. So far, the only viable options I see are:
  Metzeler MEZ2
  Dunlop D205 (140/80R17) - supposed to last 25% longer than a Sportmax II
  Avon Azaro II (140/80R17) aka AV36
  Avon Azaro ST (140/80R17) aka AV46
  Does anyone have any info on how sticky THESE tires are? Does anyone have a suggestion for some other really sticky tire that will FIT? Flash #412

• I have used the MEZ2 on both my K100RS, as well as my Honda Nighthawk and a 1986 VFR. The MEZ2 is OK as a touring tire, but is slippery in the wet. I tried an MEZ1 also, and it was a much better tire and even lasted longer on my K-bike. I also tried the Dunflop 205 on my K-bike and it isn't much better. There are better tires than either the M2 or 205 for the best grip. The problem is finding a modern radial tire in a 130 or 140 width that will fit an ST rim. The only Avon tires that I have tried are their Gripster and Tourance radials. They both felt pretty grippy to me in the dry. Richard #230

• Try http://www.motorcycletireplanet.com/catlist.asp?PTID=3 They have Pirelli and Bridgestone race tires; they should be very, very sticky. They have sizes that will fit but not the size you are looking for. Matt

• The MEZ2 is a good tire. Sticky, warms up fairly quickly, actually wears pretty well. Harl #380

• Pirelli Evo Dragon Corsa's are a pretty highly rated tire in all the tests. There's a good one on MCN.com that specifically rates street tires, street/track tires, and track tires. These and Michelin Pilot sports came out pretty hot in all the tests, as are the Avon, although more on the street/sport-touring. Lots of guys with Triumph Sprints rave about the Azaro ST (45/46) but I don't think the 35/36 is still available. It isn't in Sprint sizes. Knowing where you're going with this, how about a possible rim swap. Even without, I think you could possibly do a +1 or +2 mod and use 150/60ZR17TL 66W MTR02C or 160/60ZR17TL(69W) MTR02C Evo's. You might need to drop the forks a tad to maintain the proper rake and trail, but I don't think you'd run into clearance issues. I know on my Funduro, the pegs hit first, and that with the centre stand. Since you've got a spare pair of rims, it's not something you'll have to live with day to day. It'll be well worth it on the ST. I'm running Dunlop 207 Race Reps on the Triumph now (unfortunately, smallest rear is a 180/55-17) and I'm sure I don't have to tell you that as fun as they are on a nice HOT day, they're even more fun on a cool one! With a spare set of wheels, maybe a 250/500 vintage GP set would work, although a lot of those are 18". Which reminds me, finding a radial that narrow might be a problem but sticky? No problem.
  <Rims five tangential spoke aluminium alloy, front 3.50 x 17”, rear 4.50 x 17”  Tires tubeless radials front 120/60 ZR 17”, rear. 150/60 ZR 17”>
  This from an Aprilia RSV 250 Challenge. So there's PLENTY of sticky rubber out there in this size. Aspect ratio of the 150/60 is 90MM (Stock=118MM) so you'd be fine there, the only problem might be the extra 10MM in width interfering with the chain. David #476

• I just replaced my ME33 with a ME330 and MEZ2 with a ME550. The 550 is not radial, but it's a lot sticker that the Z2 and the ride is softer (sidewalls not as stiff). Haven't been in the rain yet. I believe the these newer tire designs use a high silica compound that's softer/stickier, but wears comparably to older tires like the MEZ2. 130/80R17 ST tires are as common as chicken teeth - I wore out a Dennis Kirk catalogue and several web pages looking for alternates to the MEZ2, but finally gave up. teddco

• Try the new Michelin Anakee. The stickiest I’ve ever driven! Fantastic on wet surfaces. Corners like crazy. Can't say enough good about it. misdt

Tubes

• The thickest tubes I have ever seen are the Bridgestone Ultra Heavy Duty. I began using these on dirt bikes after reading an article about a race team doing the Nevada 2000 off-road race (which involves the entire periphery of the state). This team felt these were the most puncture resistant tubes available, and if I recall correctly they ran the entire race without a single flat. The Bridgestones are heavier than other makers tubes labeled ultra heavy duty, such as MSR and Moose. I get them from Dennis Kirk (www.denniskirk.com or 800-328-9280). Like Mark, I have been unable to find them in a 17 inch size. The other downside if that they are so massive and weigh so much it's difficult to pack them on a dirt bike - they won't fit in the typical fender bag for example. (Mike #926)

• Quoted from Dunlop's 2002 Motorcycle tire book...
  When fitting a new tire on a rim requiring a tube, a new tube should be fitted at the same time. Old tubes become stretched and if an old tube is fitted within a new tire, it can crease and fail due to thinning of the tube rubber. Tubes should be repaired only by an expert. Secure tube valve assembly to rim with care. Inspect rim band and consult your motorcycle dealer for correct rim band replacement. Always check the size markings on the tube to ensure that the tire size appears on the tube. Do not fit tubes in radial motorcycle tires, nor fit radials on rims requiring tubes, unless the tubes bear matching size and radial (R) markings. (Marty #436)

• Yeah, and GMC Suburbia manual, says something about replacing the entire vehicle for safety's sake when the ashtrays are full. Again, Dunlop make$ tube$. And they al$o have lawyer$ working there, $ugge$ting that they encourage new tube$ for two rea$on$. Fir$t to cover their a$$e$ and only $econd, to increa$e profit$. A$k $omebody with no $take in the an$wer to the que$tion.I used the same tube for about five years in my R80G/S, though about ten tire changes. But, I am statistically dead from exploded tubes due to thinning from an overly parSimoniou$ replacement plan. Your dealer in$i$t$ on changing the tube$ at every tire change for rea$on$ that have nothing to do with $afety. If you believe that he is not in it to take your ca$h, then perhap$ he is doing it to KEEP hi$ ca$h in ca$e you try to $ue him for NOT changing your tube$. (Flash #412(CO))

• You are absolutely correct. All these manufacturers ( I've worked for Uniroyal and Dunlop) and suppliers blurb has nothing to do with reality.....I've 42 years biking with tubed tyres including 15 years racing. I've never had a tube fail with age. (Mal#1011)

• I run the heavy duty tubes from Moose, Michelin, a bunch of people. Again as people say for off-road it's the way to go (for the first application) but I carry normal tubes for spares as the heavy-duty ones are too thick. But for my Baja trips or adventure touring I bring the heavy duty ones as spares as well. If you're off-road more than on, get them I don't notice a big difference at speed but then highways are for liaison not for riding. (DavidHPark, #711)

• My dealer insists on changing out the tubes for new ones at each tire change for safety reasons. (Richard 424)

• I think changing tubes with every tire change is a rip-off started by the folks who sell tubes. Not needed. You can't run them forever though. I change tubes every 3 tire change. Never had a problem on that schedule. (Homeless)

• It's cheap insurance...that said I was forced to reuse a tube in Alaska as the dealer had a new rear tire, but no tube to go with. As the old tube was only 3 months old, I wasn't overly concerned (especially since I had a cheap spare tube in the bottom of the saddlebag). I agree that this may be a case of dealer CYA, as they have no idea how old the old tube is when replacing the tire. Some folks (like my wife) still have the same tires and tubes they had 6 years ago!! But it's your life, YOU have to decide how much risk you're willing to take. (Marty #436)

• After spending 10 years in the tyre trade I know what easy money is and the new-tube game is top of the list. I've sold dozens of old tubes to my mates. The other one is new tubeless valves every tyre. I've 42 years biking with tubed tyres including 15 years racing. I've never had a tube fail with age. It depends on the rubber mix but dry rot will show up as small cracks as in tyres. Inflating the tube will show up any flaws. a good quality tube will last years. One of the tubes in my 77 Commando is original with no signs of flaws. The new tube every tyre is an easy way to part you from your cash and it works great. When the fitter initially inflates the tyre/tube make sure it is let down and re-inflated to take any twist out of the tube. (Mal#1011)

• As some have said, after levering on the second bead, inflate and deflate to remove wrinkles, before inflating the final time. wrinkles cause chafe damage and that is the only internal failure of a tube I have ever had. I also partially inflate, and slam the wheel down on the tire all the way around to mash everything out and insure no wrinkles. Also no one mentioned this, but I always use talcum powder on my used tubes before re-assembly. I raced Vintage for years, and never replaced a tube unless it had a hole, or was visibly cracked. I recently put an old tube I had (could have been 20 years old, through dozens of mountings) in the front of my Roadstar (a 700# bike) and in a radial. Bottom line is you can always bend the rules of physics, but never with impunity! Want safety, get a Volvo... (Mtbiero (aka 'Pegaso cousin'))

• That has been my experience. Premium $15 European tubes loose about 2 pounds of air a week. Cheap Bikemaster $7 tubes loose about 2 pounds a month.  (Richard #230, Pacifica, CA)

• Dunno if the geography of origin has much to do with it, but synthetic rubber tubes typically lose less air than natural rubber. The operative word is less. Tubeless tires lose very little, if any. (Harl #380)

• You are right, Harl. It is the type of rubber that is used in the tubes. Premium, heavy-duty tubes are usually made of natural rubber because it is resistant to tearing. The cheap tubes are made of synthetic rubber and may tear more easily, but seem to hold air better. The European manufacturers prefer natural rubber, while the Asian tube makers like the lab-mix stuff.  (Richard #230)

• You can ride for 10 miles at up to 40 mph with a completely flat rear tire and it will not come off of the rim (but it will smell like burning rubber).  (Richard #230)

• Heavy Duty tubes are more resistant to puncture. They are also much heavier. For low speed off road riding this is not a problem. For high speeds on the highway they hurt the handling of your bike by increasing un-sprung weight. I haven't had a big problem with punctures on my bike. Like never. I'll stick with the regular tubes. There ain't no free lunch here. Everything comes with a cost. If I were heading out for the around the world trip, definitely. For just traveling North America, nope. (Homeless)

• Heavy tubes will also cause the tire to run hot and wear rapidly, because they insulate the heat of the air in the tire from passing to the outside of the tire and wheel rim. Again, fine for slow speeds but not what you want for hours of 80 mph riding on the highway.  (Richard #230)

• I have a Dakar 2000 which replaced a 96 Funduro. I had a blow-out on the front tyre on pavement at about 110Ks on the Funduro. Managed to stay upright but since that day I have always had the heaviest duty front tube I can get. It was one of the first things I did when I picked up the Dakar. To be honest I have not noticed any difference in the feel of the Bike but I can assure you that I feel a bit more confident. It was a scary experience. I do about 20% off-road. (Roger)

• I blew one doing 80 on my old R80GS, years ago and the heat thing is right! I was running semi knobby tires and the heavy duty tube just melted inside the tire. Never seen anything like it...I had just checked the tire pressure and new it to be good. Off road only for heavy tubes, IMO.. (Randy #748)

• I always rub spit over the valve after filling tyres - it bubbles if valve isn't sealing properly. (Paul W (UK) Dakar)

• One of your biggest concerns should be the inside rim to tube protector band. These are neglected so often and cause flats. I've used electrical tape for so many years, I've forgot the time when I started, but it works very well. You can always try and find a new band from some bike shop ,but they never have them in most cases.  (Randy #748)

• Honda says tubes in tubeless tires will lead to bursting the tire at high outside temps. Go figure. (Paul in NJ 01 Dakar)

• I would be careful with duct tape instead of rim strips on wheel rims (tho' I have used it myself). You know how the adhesive degrades on some cheap tapes, sometimes becoming an oozing sticky mass? That melting adhesive can chemically weaken some types of rubber tubes. Not a problem if you change tires every 4 months and inspect it, but if you live in a hot climate and have cheap tape on your rims with the same tube/tire for 3 years it might be VERY dangerous. Self amalgamating (rubber) tape is the REAL THING, of which anything less is a poor sticky mess of an imitation. About $6 a roll anywhere REAL electrical supplies are sold. Imagine double sided rubber tape that when properly applied in a stretched condition self amalgamates into a solid flexible sheath. (Todd #389)

• I have to support what Mark says: Michelin Air Stop Tubes seem to lose maybe 1 psi a week. I like the Metz tubes, especially as I use Metz tires, but they lose more like 1 psi a day. The only trouble I have had with the Michelin tubes is that the springs in the valve stem insert sometimes weaken and leak, and the internals of the Mich valve stem is NOT identical to the common generic valve stem found on most inner tubes. (Todd #389)

• 5 psi a week is a lot. with Michelin tubes, i RARELY had to add air. when i installed the Metzeler Tourance, i used Metzeler tubes which I left in when switching to tkc-80s. bad idea. they leak much, much faster (but still not 5 psi a week). next time i swap tires I'm going back to Michelin air-stop tubes ($12 each from my BMW dealer). (Mark #403)

• Metzler just wants to sell more tubes. I use a Kenda tube in my rear Tourance, and it works just fine. The Kenda tube also looses less air over time than the Metzler did. (Richard #230)

• Q. A few threads recently on punctures, repairs, sealants, etc....but the serious Paris-Dakar boys use tyre mousses. I know Michelin make these foam inserts that prevent (or at least reduce the risk of) punctures but has anyone used them? Picked up two punctures in two months, would like to avoid another. Mike
  
  A. You don't want to run Mousse in a normal application. This is almost strictly for off-road racing. There are serious longevity issues as well as performance/handling issues. Then there is the cost and the issue of putting the mousse in (not that difficult but different than tubes). The Michelin inserts are 'supposed' to only be run with the Michelin Desert tires. Very stiff sidewall (harder to take on/off), etc. and these aren't available anyway (if I remember correctly) in a 17" rear. I run the 140/90 18" rear and the 90/90 21" front sometimes with extra-heavy-duty tubes and sometimes with mousse. The mousse under severe off-road racing and high horsepower can have problems: witness the BMW twins and Simon Pavey's F650 Touratech Rallye this year in the Dakar. There are now other mousses available like from Moose Racing (no pun intended) and they are less expensive but again this isn't a typical consumer application. With mousse you don't get a "puncture" as you do with a tube but you get other issues. DHP #711

Slime

• I had tires/tubes replaced on my Harley a couple of years ago, and the mechanic put slime in the tubes.  (Dick #420)

• Consensus on slime seems to be that its better to know you've got a puncture than to find out later... (Adamx #1001)

• You should be aware that Slime has a recommended max speed limit of somewhere between 70 and 80 mph. I love it in my bicycle tubes, since I rarely exceed such speeds. ;-) (Mason #631)

• Just had front tire puncture last week, 20 miles from my home. I used Slime sealant and two C02 tubes to fill tire. Worked great, got me home safe. (Jetskifast)

• I carry Slime and CO2 and hope I don't get a flat. You just squirt it in the tire and hope for the best. When dealing with tubes, the only sure way of fixing a flat is replacing the tube. Anything else is just wishful thinking (which I do a lot).  (Richard #230)

• I haven't yet put slime in the tubes of my new Dakar, so I can't say for sure (I am carrying a bottle for use as flat repair though!). However, I've run slime in all my bicycle tires for about 10 years now, and the valves are fine (both Presta and Schrader type valves). If you let air out, let the bike sit a few minutes, and let the air out while the valve stem is anywhere but on the bottom. This will prevent the slime that is pooled from squirting out. But even if this happens it doesn't seem to hurt the valve . . . just makes a mess. (Scott)

• A friend of mine just finished the 100ccc on a V-Strom with Jesse bags no less. One of the things he uses is a product called ride-on. It a product for tires that's a competitor for Slime. Their web site is http://www.ride-on.com/ and their FAQ makes some huge claims. I trust my friend. Anyone who completes the 100ccc with plenty of time to spare knows a little something about long-distance riding. (Gerry #951)
• Yes, they do make different slime for tubeless and tube tires. I'm not sure what the difference is, but it does look slightly different. I use it in my bicycle tubes, and it works pretty good. I haven't had occasion to find out yet with the motorcycle. They recommend one tube per tire, but I found that about 1/2 was sufficient for the back tire. Too much, and you can't get the valve stem back in, or the slime gets inside the stem, and keeps it from closing all the way, at least that was my experience. (Tom Y)
• Be sure to get the Slime for Tube-Type Tires. If you have the proper tube along ANY bike shop should be able to do the repair for you. The rear tire is a bear to change. I carry the proper tools and STILL would use Slime to get to a suitable work location, if possible. The front is MUCH easier to change but rarely goes flat (90% of the time it's the rear). (Marty #436)
• The tube slime has different sized particles than the tubeless type. I guess the flexing of the tube vs a tyre accounts for the change. One should work in the other (say tube type slime in Tubeless tyres) but not the other way round. I don't like the idea of having liquid in the tyres all the time, just on the basis that when it comes to tyre change time its a pain. Also I want to know when I have a puncture so I get it fixed properly and don't try a 300 miler at 80 mph on the slime. I've only had one puncture in 10 years everyday riding and that went down overnight. I carry the slime in the bottle. It only starts to work when you pull the nail out etc. so it seems to make no difference if you put the slime in at the side of the road after the puncture before you pull the junk out. (Andy #982)
• I have had slime in my Dakar tires for 3 months and 1500 miles without any problems. I ride gravel and paved roads. Speed 0-80mph. Tires TKC80. (Marko)
• Q: So I was reading the Slime container at the local auto parts store and right on the label it says not to drive over 75 MPH. What's up with that? (Chris in Santa Cruz)
• A: I think the answer lies in Centrifugal Force (or whatever you like to call it). As Slime is not fixed in position within the tube it could, if there is a slight elongation at one point in the tyre - It would only need to be very small - then there is a possibility of all the Slime collecting in the same spot and causing severe vibration at high speed, ie a very out-of-balance wheel. That in turn could cause loss of control and who-knows-what-next? It's all simple Physics and the manufacturers don't want to be held responsible if it all goes horribly wrong. That's my theory. (Trevor #999)
• A: I think that the real problem is heat and its impact on the speed rating of the tire. We all know that our tires run hotter with tubes in them, than do tubless wheels. Installing a tube drops the speed rating of a tubless tire at least one grade and no doubt adding 8 ounces of Slime makes matters worse. I can see a 130 MPH H-rated tubless tire being dropped to the 112 MPH speed rating when a tube is installed (which is fine for the F650), then being dropped to the 90 MPH rating with another layer of weight and insulation between the inside of the tire and the outside. Add to that the friction of the rubber, tire fabric, tube and Slime all flexing against each other, which creates lots of heat and you have more of a heat problem than you had before. When the tire gets too hot, it wears quickly, the rubber gets greasy and the rubber Vulcanizing and chemical compounds start changing, resulting in potential traction problems. (Richard #230)
• A: I have had slime in my tires for past 2000 miles. Actually I did not notice that max 75mph speed rating, so I have been riding 90mph with TKC-80 tires without any problems. I rode to ChainGang meeting mainly interstate in Texas (speed +80mph) without problems. So it is usefull stuff. Personally I will put that stuff also to my new tires. (Marko)
• A: I've got a long way from home "SLIME" story! I try to keep it reasonably short. I rode my KLT to Canada National BMW Rally this past summer(from CA.) and encountered a 3 inch nail in rear tire in Diluth, Mn.,arggg. Anyhow, out come the plugs and tools from Napa(better than BMW tool kit stuff) and proceed to plug the hole. Works for about half a day and I have to repeat the plug process twice more while travelling across Canada. NO tires in Canada for this bike and BMW dealers are far apart up there. After two days and searching every m/c shop and 500 miles of air pump to air pump, I broke and found a Yamaha shop selling Slime, which comes in two fashions. Tubeless and Tube varieties. Of course, I get the tubeless for the KLT wheels in question and feel much better about the leak going away! Well, next stop reveals the tiny leak still persisting and Slime failure! The stuff does NOT work, IMO or I had the wrong idea, thinking it would stop small nail hole leak, which was already plugged... Well, it did not work and what a mess, come tire change day at rally! I'll tell you for sure that this is one really goooey mess to get off inside of rim and tire shop guys hate the stuff. I did my own cleanup of rim! I will not use the Slime again, unless in dire straights in middle of nowhere. Of course, that is about where I was at in Canada. Napa, mentioned above does sell a real sticky snake for tubeless applications, that far exceeds the tool kit snakes from factory. My nail hole was an apparently nasty one, needing a tire replacement and I streched it nearly 700 miles total to rally in Trenton. After looking at tire off rim, I realized how lucky I was, as the tire was really about to come apart at the hole. Bridgestone Tire was lousy for miles, but tough belting to hold under adverse conditions. I got lucky! (Randy #748)
• A: I've used slime in my mountain bike tires for years, and have found that it works great for thorn punctures, but not particularly good for anything the size of a nail. I know they claim it will seal up to 1/8" or so, but I disagee, and it looks like you would too! (Scott, ID #1244)
• A: My experience with slime is also in mountain bike tires. My problem was when it was time to remove the tube and do the proper repair the valve stem got plugged with slime. I removed the valve core and tried clearing it but it would only get clogged again. I had this happen on several bikes (a friends kids bikes) and no longer use the stuff. (Will in CA)
• A: It's a combination of both, heat and centrifigual force (particularily #2). The Slime can get bound up in one specific location if run at high speeds, it's a semi-liquid insert that's meant for puncture resistance/prevention/repair - as such not heeding the warnings to not run at high speed is simply not prudent riding. I now use heavy duty off-road tubes for all my dual sport bikes as standard carrying a normal tube as a replacement. Slime is useful in specific application like where you know that you'll be riding desert where there are lots of cactus needles, etc. in the sand washes. Some swear by it some swear at it. Too much highway riding at speed heats up the substance and allows it to move and coagulate the slime in one spot leading to an imbalanced wheel and possibly motorcycle. But as always YMMV. (davidhpark #711)
• A: Check out "Ride On" (http://www.ride-on.com/motorcycle.htm). An alternative product whose reviews are good enough that I decided to put it my tires--but no experience with it fixing (or not fixing) anything yet. It is easily water soluble and therefore easy to remove when tire/tube removal time does come 'round. Insert usual non-affiliation disclaimer here. (Rob #1160)
• A: Use of Slime are mostly for offroad application or traveling at slow speed. I have since then stopped using this product coz it created a mess when changing tire. I have switch to a better approached using tyre fix. http://members.fortunecity.com/scx1/tyrefix.JPG Slime do give you an imbalance at high speed. You could feel your handlebar shaking. From experience. (scx)
• A: I have never actually used Slime, but I doubt it can be any worse than a can of Fix-a-Flat. That stuff was only good for 3 miles, when used in a tube. (Richard #230)
• A: Slime lasted better than Fix-a-flat IMO. (davidhpark #711)
• A: Anybody try liquid latex? I have a cycling friend who swears by it, saying it works MUCH better than slime in his bicycle tubes. Actually, he uses it in his tubeless mountainbike tires too. He said he hasn't heard anything about use on a motorcycle, but he did conjecture that since latex is less viscous, then it would probably handle high speeds better than slime. He also said he adds window cleaner to keep it from freezing during the winter months. (Scott, ID #1244)
• No goo is going to work well in a tube-type tire. Even if it seals the leak when the tube is first punctured, the tube will move around and cause the nail to ripe the tube and nothing is going to seal a ripped tube. My plan is to carry tube-type Slime and a pump and squirt the stuff into the tire only after I have removed the offending nail and then hope the Slime will clog the hole long enough to let me get somewhere where I can replace the tube. (Richard #230)

Rimlocks

• I have used both rim locks and (many years ago) sheet metal screws. Screws (especially on bike rims) are still their own PITA. I'm not sure you could safely remount and reuse the (bike) tire after fixing a flat. On competition dragsters and such, the tires are more disposable, the tire beads thicker, and the rims more forgiving - I have no idea if you'd want to drill into the edges of our rims - when I have seen this done on competition bikes, tires and rims were almost considered as disposable items. But I'd also be curious, if anybody out there knows more of the details? (Todd #389)

Aging and Break-in

• Cycle World had an article within the last year about 'roofing' tires. If you leave them on your roof in Southern California, the sun, smog, and ozone will age them plenty in a week or two. As I recall, it as something to do with chemicals in the rubber working out of the compound, making the rubber both stick better and last longer. (Flash #412)

• Two matters: About tire aging, I race a vintage car and have bought tires several years old because they fit. If the tires have been kept in relative dark storage they're fine. As far as mold release is concerned I get rid of it using an orbital sander on the tires as I spin them, bike on center stand. Flash's method sounds fine too though the sander will get to sides of the tread you wont touch in a parking lot. Having to ride slowly for 75-100 miles is annoying. (Johnny #862)

• Dry rot was mentioned above and this cannot occur to tires, either! The dry rot phenom is a wood condition only, which describes water contamination and drying process where the water cannot escape quickly and causes damage to wood fibres. Tires don't and cannot develop this! As stated, sun, heat and chemicals are tires worst enemy and if stored properly, tires last years in storage, without fail. Tires do seem to develop a dry condition, where one sees cracking in sidewalls, etc., but this is only skin deep and usually won't cause catastrophic failure. I don't like it and would change mine if this appeared. The only ones I've ever seen do this are really very old tires on very old bikes. UV related for sure. The sun is probably our worst enemy and a very harsh and usually ignored phenomenon that will kill us all, if not considered carefully. Our skin is subject to same tire damaging UV rays and will do our most valued skin a fatal blow, if not taken seriously! Skin and tires, both required to continue our beloved hobby! (Randy #748)

• EVERY time I put new tires on I go find an empty parking lot and do circles to the left and circles to the right and some figure eights. While I am at it, I do a couple of panic stops. The mould-release stuff doesn't go very deep and it doesn't take much to scuff the surface of the tires up. I would MUCH rather fall off during a near peg-scraping lean at 5 mph in a parking lot than at 70 in a canyon. After ten minutes or so, they are READY for use, SERIOUS use. No chain yanking on this issue. (Flash #412)

• Some manufacturers put "TWI" marks on the sidewalls every 120 degrees. This means "Tar Wear Indicator" and tells you where on the tread portion to look for the wear bars. (Flash #412)

Tire Pressures

• Add at least 6 psi to what the manual says. (Flash #412)

• The way I see it, handling is vastly more compromised in the dirt running pavement pressures than the other way around. Unless you're riding near the limits on pavement about the only thing you give up with lowered pressure (5-10psi) is tire wear. When I'm playing off pavement with pavement sections in between I just ride a little slower than normal on the pavement. Of course, this depends on the ratio of dirt to pavement. Mostly pavement, I leave pavement pressure. Mostly dirt, I lower the pressure. (ed. See comments on hot running tires) (Mike #639)

• I saw a demonstration of a Continental motorcycle tire which was hooked up to a compressor with a digital readout. (at a demolition derby) The tire starts filling with air and when the gauge approaches 100psi people start covering their ears. The pressure goes up to 200 psi andthere are gasps of incredibility from the crowd. At 300 psi the tire explodes with a roar. So no, it wont hurt your tire to inflate it a little over nominal. (Paul)

• Part of the problem with the front end being nervous at speed is probably the tire pressures - the pressures listed in the manual sould be considered the MINIMUM tire pressure. Try something a bit higher, like 32 front and 34 rear. (Todd #389)

• 2.2bar (32psi) front and 2.4bar (35psi) rear (Jase)

• When hauling a passenger at high speeds on the freeway, I would recommend 34 in the front tire and 40 to 42 in the rear tire (depending upon the passenger's weight). (Richard #230)

• The pressure on the tire is usually noted as a maximum pressure, not a recommended running pressure. Run at the book values unless experience has shown otherwise. In this case others have found that 32 front and 36 rear is a good place to start. The most important thing is to check it and keep it at pressure, don't let it drift down to 20 or so from neglect. (Claude #312)

• Q: I'm wondering where everyone is running their tire pressure. I am fairly new to motorcycling. I have a 2003 Dakar. The manual says 27.5 front and 30.5 rear. The local BMW dealer/service guy says on pavement 40psi front and rear, on the dirt 35psi rear. The tires say 37psi max. What would you recommend. (Steve)

• A: The service tech is full of it. 40 psi in the front would really make the bike ride hard and make the front tire slippery. I would never exceed the maximum pressure moulded into the tire sidewall. My recommendation would be to use 34 to 36 psi in the rear and 32 to 34 in the front for high speeds on the freeway. You could drop the pressures a couple of pounds for paved backroads. Use whatever feels best to you as a rider. Just check the tire temperature and if it feels too hot, use a higher pressure. See the FAQ for lots more information about tires and tire pressure. (Richard #230)

• A: I second most of what Richard said. Except that I run my rear at 46 psi when fully loaded, on the freeway. (Flash #412)

• A: A PD is meant to go into the dirt once in a while, unless you use it as a Saturday Night Special. You will never manage to get through deep sand and deep gravel with highway pressure. You must go as low a 5 (five)psi front and rear to stay up. Read Scott's, Adventure Motorcycling Handbook for the inside scoop. Install rim locks to keep tire from rotating on rim, if going to such a low pressure. Enjoy!!! (Werner)

• A: Reducing tire pressure that low may be fine at slow speeds off-road (don't ask me - I don't do dirt), but you had better have some sort of pump with you to raise the pressue back up, when you hit the pavement again. (Richard #230)

• A: I don't hesitate to lower pressure into the 12-18 psi range for even gravel road trips. Many front end wash outs can be avoided with the lower pressures. I can refill both in just a few minutes. If the road includes a lot of big rocks keep the pressures in the 18 range to avoid a pinch flat. I've run my rear TKC80 as low as 14 and not had a problem with slippage on the rim. Rim locks would be recommended if you need to go lower. (BradG)

• A: I run 29 front and 33 rear when driving on pavement. Offroad I usually use 18 front and 22 rear. I don't weight to much - only 70 kilos. If you weight more you should use a little more pressure I think. (Spakur #1117)  

• I usually run at 75 on the highway (never over 80 because of all the luggage) and do try to ride a lot of twisties to make sure I wear the edges out too. Pressure runs between 32-34 psi. I'm pretty light (150 lbs), almost never ride two up, but do usually have another 10 lbs of crap in the luggage all the time. (kelly1005)

Continental TKC80 Specific

• I tend run mine a bit low on the street at 29/34 but that is because I don't like the feel of a rock hard tire on the roads I tend to ride. The perfect pressure is going to vary with your weight/load, road surface and temperature. (BradG #1002)

• I run 40psi front and rear (about) when on the road, however, I drop to 18 front, 20 rear when off road.... (Mike #789)

• I've been using TKC 80's front and rear on the road on a Dakar for about 5 months 34 front and rear, but the back tyre can creep down as low as 15 psi and still be rideable. (PeeWee #716)

• As far as lower pressures go, you can run these as low as you want with rim locks. If you're putting on TKC80s spend the extra $10 and get rim locks. Otherwise you can rip a valve stem/ruin a tire at low pressure easily - and - 18psi is NOT the best off-road pressure (you DID buy TKC80s for a reason right?). Lastly, spend a few $ extra and put in the heavy duty off-road tubes carrying normal ones as a spare. (DHP #711)
• I run my tkc-80s higher on the road, about 34/38. i weigh in at about 250lbs in gear. i've scraped the edges off my boots and have yet to have the tires slip at all, so I'm sticking with the higher pressures. this weekend, loaded with camp gear, i ran them at 36/40 cold and had no problems touching down. I was running my front at about 18 for the off-road sections of this weekends chain gang ride, and i hit the rim several times on rocks. i felt lucky not to get a pinch-flat. i think the only time you'd want to go lower than that would be in softer stuff, or gravel roads. (mark #403)

On Hot-Running Tires

• MORE air makes it run cooler. The more air in there, the harder the tire. The harder the tire, the less it flexes. It is the flex that generates heat. (Flash #412)

• BMW's tyre people did not know your surfaces and load conditions and probably took some decisions based on comfort too. Still, I'd take it easy, raise the pressure maybe 5 psi at a time (when cold) and keep an eye of the pressure when hot. If the pressure starts too high and then rises, you could get a blowout. (Andy #982)

• My wife and I also pretty much max out the load limit on my GS. I frequently check with a bare hand and it's never felt too hot (not very precise either). I've never ran more than 40psi. Not sure I'd want to add much more than 45psi.  (Mike #639)

• Do not exceed the tire pressure printed on your sidewall. The reason your tire is getting hot is that BMW has decided to use a spoked wheel that requires a tube inside the tubeless tire. These tires were not designed to run with a tube inside them and the tube friction against the inside of the tire increases the normal level of heat in the tire and then, to add insult to injury, the rubber in the tube helps to keep the heat inside the tire, instead of it finding its way to the tread surface and aluminum wheel flange, where it is more readily dissipated. (Richard #230)

• I have always used the rule of tire pressure increasing 10% from cold to full operating temp. This insures that the temp rise is always the same regardless of temperature, load, or speed.
  > 10% and the tire is over inflated and too cold.
  <10% and the tire is under inflated and too hot.
  The physics behind this is the ideal gas law where change in temperature and pressure are related. (Chuck)

• If you can lay your hand on it, its not that bad temperature wise. Bike tyres run hotter than cars because of the side forces and flexing. Even when not cornering you are going to use some of the tread on the part of that runs up into the sidewall, just keeping control in gusts, making the tyre flex. Think block treads and tubes make things hotter too. (Andy #982)

Tire Noise

• Q. I've just noticed a really nasty humming vibration when slowing down on a paved surface, also when motoring along at about 40 to 50kms.I can feel this in the grips, and also hear it from the front tire. Is road noise normal with the stock tires? What pressure are you guys running in the Bridgestones? Dealer says 34lb's, book says 27.5lb's. Bike has got 1900kms on the clock. I looked at the faq's, but I'm still kinda fuzzy on the road noise. Will increased pressure eliminate the noise? 27.5 to 36lbs is a considerable increase and I don't want this thing to ride like a tank. Are the Bridgestone's loud by nature, or am I fussing over nothing? My CR250 wasn’t as loud as this, and it had Yokahama Superdigger's!!! I called the dealer and the owner told me: Because of the tread pattern on the GS's tire, it is naturally loud and there is no cause for concern, "all F650GS's are a little noisy on pavement." I was told, if it is a faulty tire, "it's not BMW's problem," and I would have to contact Bridgestone. Terra-Nova
  
  A. Perhaps try and see if there is a difference in noise with a lower or higher pressure. Or perhaps it's this: Are you sure they're installed the RIGHT way around? The BMW Chain is opposite to most Jap bikes, which confuses people. Kristian #562
  
  A. I still have the original Bridgestone Trailwings on my bike and there's no noise like you describe. I run 37/38 rear, 33/34 front (depending on temps). Can't wait to run the TW's down a bit more and get rid of them though, I don't like them much. Razz
  
  A. Don't set your tire pressure to avoid noise. Set it so that you get proper grip and wear. DHP #711
  
  A. The only time I've noticed vibration and noise from the general-use dual-sport tires is when they become cupped, and the treads irregular. They can feel quite rough then. Johnny #862
  
  A. Check for signs of a missing balance weight on your front rim. Jim BBG#23
  
  A. I would think a cupped tire would be fairly obvious. They would have to be pretty badly cupped to make a lot of noise or make the bars vibrate (unless you're super sensitive to it). Makes we wonder if you are wearing earplugs? It seems odd for a tire with only 1900k to be badly cupped. It's possible I suppose but it would qualify as real abuse of some kind. Just to be safe I'd suggest you put it on the centre stand, have someone sit on the back of the seat to get the front wheel off the ground (or use a jack of some kind) and spin the wheel. Shake it a little and generally see, feel for anything loose or out of alignment. May not find a thing but it could eliminate other problems like a bad wheel bearing. In fact, check for play in the head bearing while it’s off the ground. You'll be amazed when you finally change tires. I think they are the least desirable dual sport tire available. Brad #1002
  
  A. <vibration when slowing down on a paved surface> To me, this is the key to a cupped tire. < It seems odd for a tire with only 1900k to be badly cupped. It's possible I suppose but it would qualify as real abuse of some kind> True, I would think it would indicate an improperly mounted, inflated, or balanced tire. I suppose it could even mean bent or improperly installed forks, axle, brakes, bearings and so on. Once shortly after installing a set of M&S rally tires on my first 2002, I noticed an irregular wear pattern (cupping, more on the inside than outside) beginning on the LF. I asked the guy at "Bear Frame and Axle" if shaving the tire would save it and he told me that once a tire begins wear a certain way, it will wear that way in an accelerated fashion, no matter what you do. I would also like to add a cautionary note here. Be careful about cleaning your wheels, certain cleaners (Simple Green in my case) will dissolve the adhesive on some types of wheel weights. David #476
  
  A. My Trailwing tyres were worse on some pavement surfaces than others. They were most noisy on very smooth pavement that had been subject to heavy traffic loads. I consider the tyre noise to be one of the 'cool' things riding a Dual Sport machine :-) My Mitas E-07 rear tyre is probably more noisy than the TW's. Have loud tyres...not pipes :-) Jack

Tire Pump See also the Tyre Pumps section in the Tools FAQ

• I started carrying a small 12v pump with a BMW plug on it. I've used it a lot and think it is a good way to go if you have the space available. (BradG)

Assorted Comments

• This site is a nice way to compare dual sport tire performance. While the bike on which the tires are mounted is an XR600, the same tires fit F650s. http://www.techstan.com/private/xr600/database/tire/tire.htm I think I might get some of those IRC GP-110s. I used to run those on my R80G/S. They're dirt cheap, about $50, and do quite well on the street.  (Flash)

• Q: Have any of you tried these TireInspectors? They look like a neat gadget. If they work they'd be worth the money to me because even though I have good intentions, I noticed that I don't check my tire pressure frequently enough. I would think (hope) they wouldn't be any less reliable than those cheezy little pressure gauges. (Runaway #1259)

• A: They look kind of cool, however, I usually don't like to see my tires drop 4p.s.i. before I'm pumping them back up. If you are comfortable with that variation, or just use them as a back up to regular pressure checks with a gauge, then they may be worth it. (Andy #618)

• A: I have read a product report about these pressure gauges that said the same thing as Andy did. They are not sensitive enough to small pressure changes to be useful in a motorcycle application. Loosing 4 PSI is too much, in my opinion. Maybe they work OK on a Ford Exploder. (Richard #230)

• A: Another useless doodad...... in my book. Save the money you would have spent on those and purchase a good quality tire gauge and use it for its intended purpose. (Steve #1059 in MA)

• A: I used two of them for about 4 weeks and then read that someone had tire leakage problems and took them off. They have been on the shelf ever since. (DaveJ#888)

• I think you will find that all of the "enduro-styled", radial-design tires from the major manufacturers are all the same when it comes to off-road performance. They have been designed for the big 1000cc-class bikes, which means that they must handle 130 mph speeds and any off-road traction is strictly in the buyer's mind. You can have good road mileage, high-speed capability and heavy-load capacity, but not with good off-road traction. As they say, you can't have your cake and eat it too. (Is that a French saying?) Richard #230

• Here is a good tire comparison from the V-Strom list. If necessary, scroll down a bit once you open the page. http://vstrom.info/cgi-bin/fom.cgi?_recurse=1&file=35#file_26 twinrider