So what about this Stand I see in the BMW Catalogue? Why is that no good?
Engle Motors Modified Stand, Kansas City
Details
This stand would appear to be a GS Stand Modified by the addition of longer feet. http://www.englemotors.com/
Opinions
I purchased the modified center stand from Engle Motors, Kansas City. Mike says I will need to remove some of the side stand foot to make a proper installation. Has anyone out there made this removal from the side stand. Did it make for a proper installation of the center stand? Is the rubber bumper (doughnut) necessary for a proper fit? Mike did a great job modifying the standard center stand. I hope I can get a proper fit. Thanks, Rudy
I just mounted mine and rode...8,000 miles in 2 weeks. Mike is right that something from the side stand needs to be removed so that it clears the center stand. On a long ride, the side stand seems to bind to the center stand, requiring a somewhat stronger kick to get the side stand down. On short trips around town, this does not happen. I think that on a long ride, the vibration over an extended period of time causes the side stand to "snuggle up" to the center stand somehow and cause the binding -- nothing that a few strokes of a file wouldn't fix. I was too busy riding to stop and look at where the problem is. The bike is in storage for winter, so a more detailed look will have to wait for spring. Harald
I got mine from Engle Motors in KC. Very pleased with the result. Jinx
Yes, they both cut a std 650 stand, weld in a couple of plugs, and powder coat the finished product. Well worth having just for the ease of lubing the chain. Besides, the Dakar sidestand is notoriously week.
Next
February 19th, 2002
by Bill # 1031, Bumblebee #702
Details
The stand is built from the ground up and comes with an optional Bash Plate. See Dakar Stand.pdf for details.
update 30-JUL-2002
Holtam Metal Fabrication can now:
1) make a center stand for a lowered GS
2) make a center stand for a standard GS
In both cases the stand would have the same features as our Dakar model.
Photos
Opinions
Two riders that are brothers, Raleigh and Merrill Holtam, noticed mine at the Sept. Jailbreak in the Clouds Rally and thought they could make one from fresh - rather than adding approx. two inches to a regular GS center stand. Over the course of several weekends coming down and taking measurements, they have come up with a great center stand with an aluminum bash plate. And, they have also made a side stand for the Dakar that does not lean so far, that makes it easier to lift upright. With encouragement from me, they have advertised on this board under "Classifieds" - "Services, Manufacturers, and Retailers" - Holtam Metal Fabricators. Check it out. Bumblebee In TN#702
The center stand and bash plate are on the bike. Everything fit!! And there were some unexpected nice touches. Such as the spring tool. It just works perfectly. Don't know what I would have rigged to get those springs on. May be a cable with loops at each end. I would try using vise grips to pull on one end of the cable. But the tool was there so I didn't have to deal with that puzzle. The four adjustable stop bolts AND the hex set screws. That was a great idea. And finally the larger rubber biscuit bumper for the side stand. The bike is a little wobbly forward and aft when on the center stand. If there were a way to locate the up-stops further out from the axis. But I just have to be careful not to push the bike forward when it's up on the stand. May be a block or a rock in front of the front wheel for safety. Or may be a cable that spans from the bottom of the stand to the frame forward of the stand so as to keep the stand from retracting even just a little. It would be easy to carry a little steel cable with loops pre adjusted for such a Jerry rig. Just a thought But for me the stand is there for emergency tire removals when on the road and to lube the chain. I wonder how the balance is when the front wheel is removed. Will the bike rest on the rear wheel? But in general it's a great product. Bill #1031
I just thought I would give a plug to a very good product that the Dakar just can't be without. Fit, finish and function are excellent. This is the Holtam center stand available through the link on this site." SScratch '01 Dakar Nashville.
I have about 5k miles with the Raleigh Holtam stand and it has worked perfectly. Good quality and functional, There really isn't anything I could improve on. I have dragged the the foot post while cornering but I can seen no alternative to its positioning. Jason#1027
I have the Holtman on my Dakar. Very pleased. Easy installation. Works as advertised. I lived without one for more than a year. I've touched the pad you put your foot on to pavement a couple of time cornering hard but I think I may be able to raise it a little more. Very adjustable. Mike639
I'd give Raleigh my money again. I have Holtam's (rjholtam@att.net). Good shit, kind of pricey but it does include an invaluable spring tool. 10 minutes from box to bike. Bird on Advrider
I also have the Holtham, and it works as advertised. The BMW catalog center stand is just a "service stand" and has to be removed before you ride. It is a pain. (Want to buy mine? It's in the corner of the garage under a layer of dust.) The ONLY problem I have with the Holtham is that it conflicts with the fat foot on my sidestand. But that is a very minor deal. The adjustments on the Holtham are also very nice. I also have the optional bash plate, which looks very cool, but is only eye candy. When I was ordering the stand I asked Holtham "What does the bash plate protect?" He said "It protects the bash plate." Love it! DakotaDakar on Advrider
I've got the Holtham as well, and couldn't be happier. Got mine at the Chain Gang rally, and it was installed professionally by the Holtham brothers-nice folk, to be sure. Mine took some grunting to get on, but I had bunged up the mounting points a bit by bouncing off rocks. Robin on Advrider
Notes from the Manufacturer:
From: rjholtam@att.net
To: Bill (Snipped)
Subject: Re: Center Stand
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002Hi Bill, I'm glad you like the stand.
The Dakar is a tall bike anyway and perching it up on that tall stand with a large degree of stability is tough. We took into consideration a few things:
Increasing the strength of the stand to compensate for side to side flex. This increases the bulk and weight of the stand and would probably require stronger springs to keep the stand from banging off-road.
Placing the stops further from the pivot point to increase fore and aft stability. Doing this would require the metal flange in which the adjustment bolts thread to be larger. These enlarged flanges would then protrude under the bike reducing ground clearance enough to snag grass and twigs.
Adding the stand increases the weight of the bike and reduces it's ground clearance slightly and we didn't want to compound that.
I don't think the bike will balance on the stand (or rest on the rear wheel) with the front wheel off. (My 97 ST will only do that if I have 30 lbs of camping gear on the rack.)
My brother Merrill is making Dakar center stands using Bumblebee702's bike as a test bike. The stand is not a modified GS stand. It is powder-coated. It has adjustable limits (stops). The cross bracing allows clearance to accommodate a larger-size tire. (Bumblebee has a larger rear tire.) The stand comes with all mounting hardware and a tool for stretching those beastly springs. An optional aluminum bash plate is available. I can supply some pictures and prices via email if anyone is interested. (I hope to get some better pictures.) I will also place an ad in the Chain Gang classified section. Raleigh #619 (97F650ST - Tennessee).
Details
This well known aftermarket supplier has a center stand (Note: the bash plate they sell is for stock center stands only). Part number is 300-0135 according to the www.touratech-usa.com web site.
Opinions
Just installed Touratech centerstand. Took 15 minutes and very simple. though the instruction comes only in German. One hitch, the center stand hits the side stand when retracted and does not fully go back. You have to push the side stand down and then all go in to the respective places. It's fine for me as the center stand is for service and cleaning as well as in case of flats out on rides, and not for normal parking use. But it could be improved. Holtam has their center stand (see elsewhere on this site), and sounds great, I was going to get theirs but the price took me to Touratech. Tomn
I just installed the Touratech centerstand on my 2002 Dakar. I paid $163 from Sierra BMW. I found the installation straight forward and should take 10 minutes with the right tools. It's the springs that will kill you. I fought with the 2 springs for about 45 minutes. I discovered the trick is to hook up the springs then move the centerstand into position, hold tight, slide the bolts in, and tighten everything up. Not easy by yourself, but do-able. My centerstand works in conjunction with the sidestand, I can use either as I choose. Side stand for quick hops into c-stores and such and centerstand for garage and chain maintenance. Hope this helps. The Dugger
by PabloDakar From La Coruña - Spain
Hi... here some pics of my new workshop centerstand... low cost material, some hours of work....Very easy to use, and very useful for maintenance (clean, chain...)
It works exactly how the centerstand...you have to install the long bar by the holes in the centerstand and the bike... then you push the bike rear ... and the bike is on the centerstand at 4-5cm at the floor...bye.
Making a Dakar Stand from a GS Stand
by msmckeon, from Wellington, New Zealand
Note that
while there are special spring installation tools and in some cases the stand
can be used as a lever to stretch the springs while installing the bolts, there
is another trick which can come in useful, as contained in the procedure I sent
to a friend below, for adapting a GS stand to the Dakar:
My stand is extended by 70 mm. Material is steel tube 22.2 mm diameter and wall
thickness 2. Furniture tube is the closest match.
You will also need the two sets of BMW bolts (2 @ $3.50), washers (4 @$3.35) ,
sleeves (2 @ $10.90) and special oval nuts (2 @ $1.30) (to ensure security).
Springs are $9.15 each (two required) All costs excl GST and are $NZ. Remember
how safety critical centre stand security is so no bodges here.
Other modifications required to bike and stand (left and right sitting on bike)
include:
Bolt on lower damper arm is inserted with head on right and not on left. In this
position stand will hit thread projecting beyond nut. Remove and replace so nut
and excess thread are on right side.
This will cause inner centrestand spring to rub on nut now on right side, drill
a new hole between the slots on the stand into which the spring hooks and
install the inner spring into this. It will now just clear the lower damper arm
bolt thread.
I believe that the lengthened stand needs to have its stops ground so it rotates
a few degrees forward of the standard F650GS position, otherwise the bike seemed
to me to be very close to rolling forward off the stand. Do this by trial and
error by jacking the bike clear of the ground and installing the stand without
the springs, seeing where it stops and removing and grinding until it stops in
what looks like the right place AND both stops are even. We are talking about mm
here, remove a tenth at a time!! Before doing this put the lengthened stand on
the bike and just check you need to grind first. You have the advantage of
having a lengthened stand. I decided to grind with the standard stand because
this new stop position would affect the length I was going to add. It MAY be I
didn't need to do this but I suspect the geometry of the bike on the longer
stand will require that it stop further forward to give a stable deployment -
check first before grinding.
You do know about the old trick for installing centrestand springs, force coins
(or better a lot of washers) between the coils on alternate sides to lengthen
the spring so it can be fitted between stand and bike? Then pop them out one by
one to tension the spring. Alternatively use the special spring installation
tool, if you have one. Forget about trying pliers etc or levering the spring on,
you are wasting your time.
Finally, now you will find that the side stand and centre stand now interfere,
whichever is stowed first is trapped by the other. The sidestand needs to be
packed out a few mm. See the little "spike" sticking down? The F650GS has a
block of rubber jammed on this to do the job! I lashed up a door stop on the
spike and piece of foam on the stand to do the job, must go and get a better
block of nice unobtrusive black rubber.
WARNING: Cautionary Warning. When the standard BMW stand is modified to fit the Dakar the cross brace position isn't moved and when a new TKC80 is fitted together with new chain and sprockets the tyre contacts the centre stand when at full suspension extension (e.g. over jumps). This isn't a problem under normal riding (with riders weight on bike there is over an inch gap) but when the tyres are clogged with mud and the full range of suspension is being used the stand keeps getting 'flicked' by the tyre. I've seen that stands made by other companies have the cross brace repositioned - so I'm not the only one to notice this. When I first had the stand fitted my chain had a few thousand miles of stretch and adjustment and so the problem wasn't an issue. Paul W
Feedback to GS Stand on the Dakar
Perfect length: Measured from centre of pivot/mounting holes to base of feet (vertically) - increase from 262mm to 325mm. This leaves rear wheel far enough off the ground (on my bike) to allow future use of knobbier tyres (soon). Cut and weld: mine was cut and extended just above the feet - seems fine. Pivot points in frame may need cleaning out (emery cloth) and greasing. The spacers pivot within the frame lugs (i.e. bolts are torqued up tight). Bottom shock bolt will need reversing as it fouls on stand. Good luck. Paul W (UK) Dakar
Cut the leg of the stand just above the foot, get a piece of solid rod the same size, 3.5 inches long. Turn down each end 0.75 inches to be a tight fit into inside of stand tube. Weld each joint and your side stand is 2 inches longer and at a better angle therefore less stress. Alan (NZ) 01
I did the same mod on my Dakar and I tell you It is the best mod I have done yet. To answer your question, I added 2 inches to the GS stand. I cut it just blow the cross bar and added the tube steel. Rick #815
For a lowered bike? We have two '01 F650GS: one factory-lowered, one regular height. The bottom strut on the centre stand of the lowered version is almost exactly 1.5" lower than the other (9.5" as opposed to 11"). The short stand looks as if it would fit the other bike just fine. HOWEVER, I haven't tried it, so I could be missing some diabolical quirk. By the way, the lowered bike is a piece of cake to get on the centre stand. mspeed #1023
My GS Side stand collapsed. Is this common?
I don't think I overstress the Side stand. When mounting all my weight is on my left leg until the right clears the seat. As soon as my butt touches the seat I'm already pulling the bike vertical. When dismounting it's pretty much the same only backwards. As soon as the Side stand touches down all my weight is shifting to my left leg. It's all but impossible to sit on a Dakar (at least mine) with the Side stand down (and put your feet on both pegs). You can do it but you have to hang on tight to keep from falling off, or sit on the side of the seat I suppose. But I don't do that anyway. I think it's just a less than optimal design. I think they used the same Side stand/mounting point for the Dakar as the standard GS, at least on the earliest ones. The Dakar is 2" taller. The result is a greater lean angle with more leverage (stress) placed on the mounting lug. The lean angle for the Dakar goes way beyond what's needed for stability. Also, apparently some of the welds were defective. When I was showing the service counter guy the Side stand one of the tech's walked up and asked if that was the one they'd just fixed. He said this is the second one they've had to replace. On the first one the weld bead extended only halfway along the rear side. That doesn't appear to be the problem with mine, more like inadequate penetration of the weld. I think they may have improved the design with the newer Dakars. Either a little longer stand or the point the lug is welded is a little further around the frame tube. I was given an 02 (Dakar) service loaner once and one of the first things I noticed different was it didn't seem to lean quite as far over as mine. Mike #639.
I've previously reported on what a PoS the Dakar Side stand is. Since I've got a different one from Touratech on the Rallye bike I've taken to convert my Dakar to this Side stand. MUCH beefier and with a better spring. Side benefits are that I can use the carbon fiber bash plates with storage compartment as well. One more thing Mike639, if you would have done the rolling/hop dismount you would have been off the bike already then had the ability to put the Side stand down which most likely would have shown you that it was FUBAR. You can order the Rallye bike sidestand from Touratech. I think that it 'might' require the use of the different underside engine mounting bars. It shouldn't require the cutting of the lower engine bash plate mount which is done for using the CF bash plate from TT. If you've got the TT footpeg relocation kit you're already 1/2 way there. Davidhpark, #711
Has anyone out there had a problem with their Dakar sidestand weakening? A couple of evenings ago I was getting off my bike and it felt as though it was going over too far. I'm used to the extreme lean angle, but this almost tipped. I checked out the mount and saw that the mount had bent out a little. The metal seems too soft . I took the risk of breaking it by bending it back in some and that only lasted a couple of days before it was back out again. Anyone have this problem? Skip.
Where can one order a new (non-bmw) side stand for the GS? I have scraped off/bent two already and am I tired of the sort life span. (Yes I ride my GS hard on the dirt). Never damaged it in a fall... Just scraped it off on the jumps at the TT track at MetCalfe... I've looked but I didn't see (on the Touratech website) a side stand. I've just seen it on DHP's bikes... PQBON.
Problem: The centerstand on my '03 F650GSL "droops" when in the retracted
position. Looking at other F650's at the dealer, their centerstands appear to be
near horizontal when retracted. My dealer's observations were that the
centerstands on the GS models retract to the horizontal position, but that the
GSLs they've seen all have "drooping" centerstands. When the preload is backed
off the centerstand scraps rather easily when cornering. Is this "normal"? The
springs seem ok, there are tabs welded to the frame which meet the tabs welded
to the centerstand which, when the stand is retracted, meet together. When the
tabs meet the centerstand still "droops". Perhaps the tabs on the centerstand
need to be ground off a bit to allow the centerstand to more full retract.
Answer: No. It's a Fabrication Fault.
I have the GSL version and can confirm that my centerstand is nearly horizontal when retracted. As hard as I have driven, I have scraped a foot peg here and there but never the centerstand. Kevin Model 2002 F650 GSLA
I finally took a look at my GLA and the legs of the retracted centerstand were parallel with the ground. Bonnie #1158 -- Northern Illinois -- '02 F650GLA
We have two GS’s in the garage, mine is lowered and my Riding Buddy’s is not. The centre stand on my bike does “droop” slightly in comparison with the other bike, even when fully retracted—right against the tabs. I normally ride with the preload fairly high (just a personal preference), so it’s not a concern with everyday riding. I did spend a day at the racetrack, and even with the preload set way up, the centre stand would scrape when I riding super aggressively. Overall, however, for a dual-purpose bike, it gave an awesome account of itself at the track. The GS is a compromise anyway—but that’s what makes it such an amazing all-round machine. It does most things quite well; it just doesn’t perform any single function brilliantly. And the lowered version is more of compromise in terms of clearance. It just depends what you want, and what sort of compromise you are willing to make. Naturally you don’t want to be scratching up your nice bike, but in terms of handling it’s not a big deal. Unlike some of the twitchy sport bikes I have ridden (those that had centre stands), scraping the GSL’s stand causes barely a ripple in its composure. It’s not going to pitch you in the ditch. So to answer your original question directly, I would say that it is quite normal. My BMW mechanic (former racer and track wrench) agrees that it’s just the nature of the beast. Cheers, mspeed 1023 -- Toronto, Canada -- '01GS
Solution:
I ended up removing a small section of the "tab stops" on both sides of the
centerstand where they contact the "tab stops" welded to the frame. It is now
horizontal and no longer "droops". When retracted, the bottom of the centerstand
legs are about 1 1/2 inches higher above the ground than before the surgery.
Thanks Again, MikeInCo, '03 F650GSL.
How do I lubricate the center stand pivots?
The GS does not have grease nipples like the Classic, only small holes. They are located near the pivots but are hard to see. Use a flashlight. Brad #1002
I just did this Saturday--I used white lithium grease in a spray can that has the little red spot-spray straw, like a can of WD 40. I stuck it in the hole a sprayed, some came out the sides just like the manual says little messy, but it worked fine. Mark #797
I had to take my bike off the center stand to get the joints to accept grease. Chris in Santa Cruz, CA #782
When to use side stand v. center stand
center stand is for use on HARD, SOLID pavement (like your concrete garage floor) or for a "quickie" chain lube. The Side stand is for areas that are or could become soft (dirt/hot asphalt, etc). A center stand can sink evenly into hot blacktop/dirt, until the foot tang on the left side hits, then ONLY the right side sinks :-(. Carry a pad to go under your Side stand to avoid ruining blacktop parking lots (a round outlet box cover - with a retrieval string to loop over your clutch lever - works good). Park in 1st gear so the bike can't roll away if bumped. Marty #436
Is the Dakar side stand too short?
Us
poor Dakar owners have always complained about how short the side stands are
and the excessive lean caused by lack o' side stand length. I assume that the
other F650 owners have the same challenge. I stopped by Al Jesse's and while
there, inquired about the side stand extension that he mentioned a few weeks
back. He asked if I wanted one. Of course. He grabbed an electric saw and we
whacked the end of the side stand off. Then, we propped the bike up via the
end of the side stand resting on a 4" block. We took the cut-off end, secured
it in a vice and drilled a hole in the very bottom of the flat portion of the
stand. The extension is a rather thick "tube" with a thick middle and more
slender portions on each end. It has an Allen head bolt on one end that
threads through to a longish, conical piece of metal on the other end. You
insert that end into the side stand and then insert the bolt end into the
cut-off piece. Using the hole that we drilled in the bottom of the stand, you
insert an allen wrench and tighten it up. When you tighten it, it pulls the
conical-shaped piece down into that end of the tube that expands it and
secures it into the side stand. There are spacers that, for the Dakar, allow
you to extend the side stand from 2.25 inches to 2.5 inches. It's a rather
trick piece that will naturally extend to other BMW models (F650, GS) of
course although I didn't ask for that piece of info. Retail is $50. Call now
if you want one.
Gerry #951
The
side stand on the Dakar is a lot longer then the standard bike. It is easy to
modify the side stand. Add 2'' to the length and The bike sits at a better
angle. Cut the stand 2'' from the bottom. Get a 4'' length of solid rod same
size as the stand leg. Turn down on lathe 1'' each end of rod. Slide inside
both ends of cut stand. weld and paint and refit. Your bike will be a lot
safer now when you have it fully loaded on the side stand. (NZ)
Other Side Stand Problems
Q:
It seems the wire loop on the side stand used to push the stand down with your
foot drags when I make a hard left turn. Can that be fixed?
A: Been there. Just bend it up some. It's not going to break by bending
up a 1/2". That should allow you to carve the pavement with the end of the
foot pegs instead. Brad #1002
Q:
Where can one order a new (non-bmw) side stand for the GS? I have scraped
off/bent two already and am I tired of the sort life span.
A: You can order the rally bike side stand from Touratech. I think that
it 'might' require the use of the different underside engine mounting bars. It
shouldn't require the cutting of the lower engine bash plate mount which is
done for using the CF bash plate from TT. If you've got the TT foot peg
relocation kit you're already 1/2 way there. DHP #711
Q:
Can the side stand kill switch be defeated?
A: The circuit looks simple. Power from the ignition switch, through
the kill switch (closed= go), through the side stand switch (closed= go) to
the fuel pump relay then to the motronic unit. The motronic unit
seems to back feed about 1.5 volts down the line to the relay when the
ignition is on and the switch is open and/or as the unit shuts down. This
needs to be overcome by the power coming the other way to get the relay to
close and give you the fuel pump function if you close the stand switch after
ignition on. If your side stand switch or side stand switch bypass wire is not
perfect (mine had water in the connector) this is taken as sidestand down, so
the bike won't run. Andy #982